Again with the VP tracking???
Some of you may recall a series of articles I wrote last spring regarding claims that calls on Sorenson’s VP phones were being tracked by Sorenson. It obviously touched a lot of nerves within the community and many comments were posted. Sorenson also privately assured me that they were no longer following this practice.
But this past weekend, I came face to face with the possibility that yet other Video Relay services were tracking our calls. Specifically, HOVRS.
I received an email from HOVRS telling me to get my Purple Number in order to expedite the process of waiting for their upcoming MVP portable video phones. So, I went through the steps and filled out all the online forms. Then I called the number they asked me to call and confirm what I had done so they could set it up on their system.
The representative, a Deaf person, asked me essentially the exact same questions I had answered moments ago on the form. Okay, fine… Time consuming to do something twice already but let’s see where all this goes. Towards the end of the call, I asked what is the expected timeframe for the distribution of MVP phones?
That’s when I got floored…
“Let me give you a hint. If you want to get your phone faster, make as many calls as you can through HOVRS.”
Umm… HOVRS keeps track of my calls? This is *VERY* alarming, to say the least. Exactly how are they tracking us? How far do they go? Do they track the number of calls I make? Do they track the phone numbers I call? Have I unwittingly placed my friends, family and business associates into a compromising position where they are now being tracked? Does HOVRS start building charts linking me from one call to the other and determing my personal network of friends and family? Do they track the actual content of the calls?
As you can see, the mere admission that a phone call is now tracked, however trivially, is mind-boggling. And I fear for my privacy rights.
But then, this whole conversation got weirder. See, a few weeks ago, Sorenson also contacted me to get a free phone number. I called a number, and a Deaf representative answered and we set everything up in just a few minutes.
But with HOVRS, it was umm… weird. First, I called the Deaf rep. Then he asked me to call via HOVRS to teleconference in with someone else. So I called, gave a “pc number”, and the relay operator called another customer rep who then conferenced in the first Deaf rep.
Then this customer rep also asked me all the same questions that the Deaf Rep and the Online form asked me. That’s thrice now, plus a bunch of additional questions! All in all, truly time-consuming, and the relay conversation was the longest portion of all in this process.
But here’s why I got suspicious. Why, when contacting Sorenson, it was all handled via one person, a Deaf rep, while at HOVRS, I had to use their relay service? Knowing that the FCC pays per minute for relay calls, I wondered if HOVRS was making me use their relay service so they could bill the FCC for our time? If so, I want a piece of that pie!
Don’t forget that HOVRS was under investigation for overbilling the FCC by approximately $1M earlier this year. By using us as a legitimate video relay call, looks like they found a way around a little sneaky loophole.
So not only are they tracking our calls, but they’re also jilting us as taxpayers funding the video relay services program managed by the Federal Communications Commission.
Where are the video relay watchdogs when we need them. Something stinks rotten here and I feel violated by their obvious admission that I’m being tracked.
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whats your point of saying ‘Deaf rep’ ?
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Sorenson User reply on November 11th, 2008:
I beg to differ, Sorenson still keep track of my calls.
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Bryen reply on November 11th, 2008:
Sorenson User,
Can you give us some additional information where your suspicions come from? I’d love to open up debate again on whether we are being tracked and how far it is going. We definitely need better practices in place to prevent the rape of our privacy in telecommunications.
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Midwestern Texan - November 10th, 2008 at 10:37 pm
Midwestern Texan,
The point of Deaf Rep was that when I set up registration for a new phone number with VP, I communicated directly with the representative. When HOVRS made me call in Step 3 through relay service “just to reverify everything”, I seemingly helped HOVRS incur additional charges they could bill to the FCC. Why do they need us to call through relay when we were already talking directly via ASL to the rep without relay?
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Bryen - November 10th, 2008 at 10:42 pm
Bryen, I didn’t know your blog existed regarding the vps and such and pleased to learn more. Thanks! I will surely follow up on this blog site ahead.
Anyway, I do understand what you were talking about the vp tracking which many of us were suspecting of for some time. I recalled few friends who told me that they saw the ‘recording’ on the bottom of the screen and they were shocked and upset. Then they cleared it up after that. Shame of them!
Guess what? I still have the same vp-100 for almost six years… I was one of very first few ones receiving vp-100 in my local area (big city) back then and then requested for a vp-200 last month yet no word from them still.
I don’t like Sorenson either and AGREE with you and others that they should respect the vp-100 existing customers to replace with the vp-200 like what FCC warned.
About the HOVRS… I find it so disappointed after what I learned and was quite suspicious of their purple ticket strategy for a while so I suddenly stopped at that. Jeez!
At last, it’s BEST to buy a videophone on your own so they could not vp-track you at all and also be free from their such BS traps. It’s just a very reason why I’m going to buy a Z product as soon they come out… also I really think CSDVRS is the way to go for now.
Keep up on investigating on those VR services and such with my pleasure!
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Bryen reply on November 11th, 2008:
Thomas,
Thanks for noticing my blog. My blog isn’t specifically dedicated to VP issues, but rather a place to discuss any issues regarding our Deaf Community. I hope you come back often and commment whenever appropriate because we all have something to say!
I want to touch on one thing you mentioned. You felt that buying your own videophone is the way to prevent tracking. That’s a misconception. Any and all videophones can be tracked via your IP address. It is still very much possible technologically speaking to track your incoming calls to a video relay call center.
The only difference you really would benefit is that you would be “unregistered.” They would not have your personal information and all they have is an IP address.
I do not mind tracking of calls for the purpose of financial auditing. These services have to prove to the FCC that such calls were made in order to receive compensation. However, that is the limit to as far as I would go. Our problem here is that we have no idea exactly how far these services monitor and track us. HOVRS proved it with their statement to me that they are indeed keeping track of me in order to ‘reward’ me for a new MVP phone. This is when it becomes alarming to me.
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Thomas - November 11th, 2008 at 2:51 am
Interesting post, perhaps check with FCC and find out what are the guidelines FCC impose on VRS companies. Then take it from there that way, if VRS providers are not following FCC guidelines, then file complaint.
That is how I did with Sorenson when many people who got VP 200 while my VP 100 was deteroriating and I contacted Soreson numerous times and got run-around. I filed complaint with FCC.
Lo and behold! I got VP 200
That is why FCC is there for you.
Good luck!
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Bryen reply on November 11th, 2008:
Harleygirl,
I totally agree with you that the FCC is the ultimate way to go. But there’s always strength in numbers.
If you have concerns about tracking, comment here. I can always point to this article with the FCC showing that there is significant concern across the Community about how these services handle our calls and the confidentiality we expect to get during these calls.
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harleygirl248 - November 11th, 2008 at 6:42 am
For me, yes, it was a Deaf rep for me/the VP instaler to call (Sorenson) to set-up my ph nmbr. She did ask me about three questions…how old was I?, did I work?, were there other members in my household (I think she asked if they were hearing).
I have no experience with HOVRS…haven’t used them at all.
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Thinking - November 11th, 2008 at 11:43 am
Can you prove us that there is a fact that HOVRS overbilled FCC?
I was talking to a technical support and they knew how much I used. That was only way I could tell you.
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Sorenson User - November 11th, 2008 at 2:26 pm
sorenson took my old vp 100 because i haven’t use it for a long time. i ordered a 200 vp for a member of a family and got it…
when the representative came to our house i was like ok have it and i lost the privies to get another one later if something happen to this vp 200 like moving out or whatever… I would have to fight my way back into sorenson.
whatever… you know big brother is always watching us.. it will always be like this when we get “free” stuff. i am waitin for the day when I can actually purchase something without having to be watched all the time.
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deaffamily - November 11th, 2008 at 2:36 pm
CSDVRS rep asked for my mac id numbers from sorenson’s vp. Also they asked me to download csdvrs’s software on my computer. With this software, they keep tracking your calls. CSDVRS will not tell you but I know for sure since csdvrs rep had told me when they left from that company.
I will tell you that CSDVRS is growing fast and will be the same problem they had with CSD.
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Troy - November 11th, 2008 at 6:35 pm
This is why it is better to buy something than get it for free. A Viable representative told me that I wouldn’t have to walk through fire to get my VPAD and sure enough I got mine in 2 weeks and I love it. I bought my VPAD two months ago, and now they said they are selling the new VPAD to anyone who has a Viable Number because the FCC requires that. They said they are not accepting sign ups or won’t charge you for an order until they guarantee that you will get it in 2 weeks instead of making you wait like Sorenson or HOVRS.
The VPAD upgrades are awesome and anyone who bought a VPAD last spring should try it again with the new upgrade. I don’t know about you all but I think Viable is kicking some ass.
I’m impressed with CSDVRS and the fact that they’re selling the Z and making it available to people. But I know several friends who have ordered one and haven’t gotten it, but at least they’re not scamming people into making calls like HOVRS is. I don’t think CSDVRS or Viable are watching our calls because they’re pretty small companies. Sorenson and GOAM are HUGE, they can hide it better and do more because they think they own the world.
Here’s to the little guys!
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vrs user - November 11th, 2008 at 10:41 pm
Well, almost every VRS providers are tracking in one of many ways no matter what. Alots of customer service reps are hearing so they (reps) can buy some billable minutes by repeat questions, reconfirm orders, and unnecessary questions and many more. VRS providers WILL not need to track you guys for any reason. VRS providers should limited to the financial audits on real incoming and outgoing phones calls from a phone company only.
VPAD is traceable.
Viable Vision is traceable.
MVP is traceable.
HoVRS’s IM is traceable.
VP-200 is traceable.
VP-100 is traceable.
OJO is traceable.
I will not be surprised if the Z products from CSDVRS are also traceable.
FCC has long way to go, and need to set up more regulatory to protect our privacy.
So long.
VRS Client.
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VRS client - November 12th, 2008 at 11:32 pm
Can you prove us that HOVRS overbilled FCC ? I am not able to find any information pertaining to this situation.
Please point this information.
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VP User - November 13th, 2008 at 7:04 am
Have any of you received Viable Number and the newer VPAD (plus)
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Deaf Anonymous - November 13th, 2008 at 8:21 am
The link for the FCC report investigating into HOVRS: http://tinyurl.com/65ny97
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VRS client - November 14th, 2008 at 8:52 pm
This is an official reply from Purple Communications. It may be helpful for consumers to understand the reasons behind the practice of verifying customer information. As you may recall, some years ago there was a problem with telephone companies changing subscribers’ telephone service without their consent. The federal regulators made this an illegal telecommunications practice. This is called slamming. To ensure that slamming does not take place, after consumers request telephone service change, a rep would then meet with the consumer to review all details to confirm the information. Then by FCC rule, a third party must also review all details with the consumer to validate the information before the change can be official. This multiple–step process ensures that telephone companies are not slamming consumers.
Recently the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) mandated a 10-digit numbering system for VRS. Beginning January 1, 2009, consumers who obtain the 10-digit numbers can port (move) their number from one VRS provider to another. When this happens, the consumer is changing his or her default VRS provider. This is the same thing as changing your telephone service from one company to another. Instead of waiting until January 2009, Purple is taking proactive measures to begin the ‘anti-slamming’ process now. This explains why after the VRS consumer make the request, a rep reviews all details to confirm the information. Then, a call is made to the third party customer care representative to review, once again, the details in order to validate the change. Purple anticipates that this process or something similar will be required for all VRS providers once the 10-digit numbering system goes into effect January 1, 2008.
With respect to the suggestion that HOVRS overbilled the FCC. That is blatantly false. The FCC made no such finding and in fact immediately pulled the document in question from its web site due to serious errors contained in that document. However, despite serious errors contained in that document, it specifically confirmed that HOVRS’s billings to the TRS Fund were accurate.
Further, it is not true that consumers must make as many calls as they can to get the phone faster. Purple encourages consumers to build their “Purple Connections” by adding names of friends, family members and others to the address book. This is how a consumer moves up the “line” toward getting the mobile videophone (MVP). This also facilitates building your address book that will be automatically populated when you receive your MVP.
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Purple Communications - November 15th, 2008 at 8:22 am
A follow up from Purple Communications (the company that provides Hands On VRS services) regarding reports that some of its sales reps were misrepresenting how consumers could get the company’s upcoming Mobile Video Phone (MVP)…
Representatives who promise an MVP more quickly to people who make VRS calls are wrong. Reps are trained extensively that priority is not based on VRS call frequency. Reps are also reminded repeatedly of this on an ongoing basis. In instances where we’ve received reports about our reps making these misrepresentations, we’ve requested their names so we can address this with the rep immediately and directly.
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Purple Communications - November 24th, 2008 at 9:32 am