What Deafhood did for me, Part 3: Integration
Some of you have asked why I’m “into” Deafhood. In this series, I will tell about my life and experiences (some of it, anyway) that have led toward my understanding and support of the Deafhood concept. Due to the length, I have broken it up into three parts:
- Part 1: The Hearing person that couldn’t hear (relates to before I developed a Deaf identity)
- Part 2: Developing a Deaf Identity (relates to after I entered a school for the Deaf)
- Part 3: Integration (How my past and present were reconciled by learning about Deafhood)
I realize that this vlog may not fully answer your questions. I welcome all open, honest questions and feedback, and will respond as appropriate. I will not accept or post any negative comments (including insults or “bashing”) due to the personal nature of this series
Valhallian said,
July 27, 2008 @ 7:29 pm
Don, I have seen all three videos and now have a much better understanding of where you are coming from. I share a lot of similar experiences that you did in your earlier life altho I was not picked on as much as you may have. It may have helped that I was one of the best althletes of my class and was usually picked first when it came to team selections at recess when it came to sports, as I started public schools at the third grade myself with no support services as well. And yes, that did add a heck of a boost to my confidence among hearing people. Without that, I am sure my life would have had a different outcome.
It appears that you were doing fine in terms of hearing schools up until when you mentioned your family moved out of state and you had to switch schools. Before I comment further on my experiences with that, I do have a question.
What do you think would have happened if your family had never moved out of state and you never switched schools?
DrDonG said,
July 27, 2008 @ 7:50 pm
Eric/Val. –
I have noticed that those Deaf who report positive social experiences in school tend to have something “extra” going for them — athletic ability or beauty (for females, but I guess it could apply to males too). But most of us aren’t quite so lucky to have those “extras”….
A good question, what would have happened if we had never switched schools? Of course we will never know, but my suspicion is that the outcome would have been pretty much the same, although maybe slightly less of “hell” time. The reason for my suspicion is that in elementary school, interactions are more physical — playing rather than social/talking. But in Middle and High School, verbal interaction takes a much more important role. And since I could not participate in any kind of group interaction, I would have been excluded. I had already established a pattern of one-to-one relationships, so I doubt much would have changed there. Also, Middle School is a period where kids DO become more obsessed with and rejctionary (I know that’s not the right word at all, but can’t think of what it should be) of “difference” and I was “different” on a number of fronts — Deaf, the smartest one in the class, nerdy (I’ll admit it — I was nerdy) and nowhere near the “in” crowd. So I suspect the result would have been pretty much the same. Only difference would have been I MIGHT have gone to school with some of the same kids I had known, but would those kids have continued their positive or neutral relationships with me? I know kids do tend to “follow the crowd”, and it’s possible that some of them might have acted differently with me when they saw that the “in group” was actively singling me out. But as I said, we’ll never know for sure…..
Valhallian said,
July 27, 2008 @ 8:28 pm
I will be the first to admit that “labelling” does run rampant among the hearing culture as well and it would have been very different for me if it weren’t for my athletic ability at the time. I was able to communicate more than on a one to one basis as I could handle small group conversation as well, because they all knew I was deaf and “accomodated” me by making sure I was paying attention to them before they spoke. Bigger groups were where I mastered the art of “social bluffing”.
The reason I asked if it would have been different if your family had remained in the state. As like you, my family moved out of state as well, but it was when I had only two years left in high school. The high school that I transferred to was more than twice the size of my previous high school so it no longer became a situation where “everyone knows everyone”. This high school also did not have a water polo program, which I excelled at, and for that reason, I chose not to go for their swim team, and instead opted for the ski team as it was during the same season. Sure, there were some hearing people at that school that I got along well with, but it was not the same as it was in my previous high school.
However, this high school had a large number of deaf people and that was where I started hanging out with them, altho they were pretty much oral in general too. This was what led me to go to RIT and RIT was where I learned to sign and more about the actual deaf culture.
I do beleive that if my family never moved there, I don’t think I would be as absorbed into the deaf culture as much as I am now, so that being the case, I am indeed grateful for the move. Simply because I love the deaf culture and the deaf community.
After all, it was this experience that lead me to find my deaf self identity as well, you and many others could call it deafhood, and I would also label it that way in a sense, but not fully. Simply because of the fact that many out there people that promote deafhood have a tendency to reject those deaf people who do not know sign language.
These deaf people that do not know sign language go through the exact type of rejection that you mentioned at your school after you moved, as well as MSSD at first, because you did not know how to sign at first while at MSSD. It is this type of rejection, that in many cases, drives them away from the deaf culture and deaf community without even giving them a chance to learn about signing, deaf culture, etc. Just as your experience in the hearing culture drove you away from it because you were rejected, its the same prinicipal. Rejection is indeed a very painful for everyone, whether or not they are deaf. Many of these people are not even given a chance. Many deaf people make fun of their CIs, etc., they then make a beeline away from the rest of us pretty much forever.
I do think we could benefit from these people as it would allow us to become a much more powerful force if all of us deaf people would unite, regardless of the communication mode. If deafhood actually promoted this type of unity, I would then become one of its staunchest supporters.
Nancy M. Carroll said,
July 27, 2008 @ 8:39 pm
Hello Don:
Thank you for sharing your personal life experiences with us. I, too, find Paddy’s book to be inspirational and wish more people would read it before pouncing on others and attacking them for having a certain view. History does play a significant role in how we treat others today. If people would take the time to understand the past, they will better understand the present to be able to make the future a better place for all. Change can only occur when WE take action. Thank you for doing your part as I strive to do mine.
J.J. said,
July 27, 2008 @ 9:08 pm
Don,
Thanks for sharing your experiences. It was rather interesting.
Yeah, I experienced something similar…during my elementary school years I “half-mainstreamed”…meaning I went to a deaf school for 1/2 a day…then a hearing school the other half. I made several hearing friends at the school. I also made more hearing friends in my neighborhood.
As soon as I reached the Junior High/ High School level….those friendships faded away as communication played more of a role in those friendships. In elementary school…it was all riding bikes, playing kick ball, and stuff like that…then later on it was more social in nature…
As for Deafhood…I plan to eventually read Ladd’s book before further commenting….I don’t know anything about Deafhood…but I will…
DrDonG said,
July 27, 2008 @ 9:26 pm
Eric/Val.–
Yes, many Deaf do act rejecting of oral Deaf, but as I explained it, when an oral person comes into Deaf “territory”, they are expected to try to fit in, not force the Deaf to fit to them — “when in Rome…”. I have noticed many oralists say they experienced the rejection and decided they weren’t going to try. I think my classmates respected me enough for trying that they started to leave me alone and accommodate me a bit more, since I showed them that I was working to try to meet them on their terms.
But I do agree that signing Deaf do have to try to show more tolerance of non-signing Deaf so that they can feel more accepted or welcome into the community. Deafhood doesn’t address this issue specifically, but I think it does apply in understanding that those oral Deaf still do have that element of Deaf experience like signing Deaf and we have to be more aware of how we interact with those non-signers so that our community can unite more strongly together.
DrDonG said,
July 27, 2008 @ 9:31 pm
Hi Nancy –
We all have a part to play in this — to each according to their abilities! You have good abilities in your area that I probably don’t, and I probably have my abilities that you don’t — but together, we all make a good team!
JJ — Thanks for sharing your experience. I guess you confirmed my suspicions of what I told Valhallian. I do hope you try reading Paddy’s book someday. It isn’t easy reading at all, but if you work at it, it is worthwhile. It is important to discuss it with others while you read so you can all work out what Paddy is trying to say and explore the points together. I do plan to try to make some summaries of Paddy’s book for the community to share — just need to “get a round Tuit”.
SDA said,
July 27, 2008 @ 9:53 pm
Hi there Don ~
Wow - three vlog posts! I’ve viewed them all. And enjoyed listening to your words of experience and wisdom.
And of course, it brought me the memories of our Deafhood class last spring. The memories are irreplaceable! Thank you so much for participating in our Deafhood class as I value your insights and wisdom.
Your and my backgrounds are completely different yet we think so much alike. I came from an ASL-signing Deaf family, and attended Deaf schools all my life, except for my graduate schools. But this does not mean that we are worlds apart. As adults, we have arrived at a place where we feel ‘at home’ with our identity, philosophy, etc. So fascinating and heart-warming!
Keep up with your blogging and vlogging work! They will definitely go down in the Deaf history as valuable info.
Thank You!
Valhallian said,
July 27, 2008 @ 10:14 pm
Don,
Aye, I agree with the concept, when in Rome, do as Roman do. I spent six years at RIT, and from what I saw in my duration there, it was way more of the oral trying to fit in than trying to get the signers to fit in the oral world, WAY MORE!
Granted, there are a few that won’t try to fit. I was in no way hesitant to try to fit in, it only took time and these signers needed to be more tolerative of that. These “impatient” signers certainly did not learn it on their own and they had to learn that attitude from elsewhere.
It was the simple fact that ASL cannot be learned overnight, again which applies to Rome. Rome wasn’t burnt down in a day, or Rome wasn’t built in a day.
Every fall quarter for 5 years, I always had to deal with oral freshman being frustrated with being rejected by signers, because of the fact that they could not learn to sign quickly. Ya might know the saying in business, for every ten good customers, there is one bad customer and that one bad customer can hurt the business significantly.
In this case, for every ten signers that showed the patience and tried to help them learn it, there is one bad signer that would make fun of them and reject them. The fact is that one bad signer is much more powerful than the ten good signers, that is how painful rejection is.
I could not even count the number of oral freshman I have convinced not to leave after fall quarter, as there were many, and I understood their frustrations, because I went through them myself. By the end of the school year. they become quite content with where they are, as their signing got better and they end up sticking around long enough to graduate.
Now without intending any disrespect towards you whatsoever or purposely trying to make you look bad here, but if you look at some of your previous vlogs. i.e. cochlear implant slayer, the vlog where you wore a blue shirt crossing out certain modes of communication, etc, you are exhibiting signs of rejection of other communication modes you know?
That being the case, I get somewhat of the impression of “the pot calling the kettle black” when you say the signing deaf needs to show more tolerance ya know? I do hope that means that you are seeing that more tolerance does need to be expressed and that you will take it as something learned, as we all learn something new everyday.
Valhallian said,
July 27, 2008 @ 10:17 pm
oh one more thing, I should add that while I have not yet read the book, but I have read the definitions in the glossary in google books, as I understood it, if you do not sign, you practically are not Deaf, therefore Deafhood does not apply to oral people and that is where I disagree altho I should take the incentive to purchase the book and read it in its entirety.
DrDonG said,
July 27, 2008 @ 10:31 pm
Eric/Val. –
Yes, Paddy does focus primarily on the signing Deaf, because that is where he found the themes of Deafhood to be most strongly expressed. However, your story, and a few others that I’ve seen either here or elsewhere in DeafRead reinforce Paddy’s point that Deafhood requires contact with and socialization with other Deaf people, whether signing or not. Your story illustrates to me that you have developed one form of Deafhood — let’s call it “Oral Deafhood” for lack of a better term right now. You have developed a solidarity with those Deaf who share similar outlooks as you, and you have a preference for socializing with other Deaf (signing or not) over a Hearing-centered socialization pattern. That is a form of Deafhood.
As for your other point, yes, I do have strong views about C.I.s, Oralism, SEE, Cued Speech, etc. I have done a lot of research over the years that consistently points to ASL being the most effective language (SEE and Cued Speech are not languages, but codes for expressing English in one form or another) for Deaf people to acquire (I am not against English itself — I love English too, and as you can see, I am bilingual in ASL and English) — I just believe that Deaf people have the right and need to be bilingual in ASL and English). My shirt was an expression of that viewpoint. However, I do not actively reject a person with C.I.s or uses SEE or Cued Speech. They are still Deaf, and I will consider them “of my tribe”. But I do reject those METHODOLOGIES and TECHNOLOGIES as representations of an audist system that has continually tried to make us Deaf people into “Hearing” people in one way or another. In other words, I hate the SYSTEM, but love/respect the USER. Is that clearer?
DrDonG said,
July 27, 2008 @ 10:35 pm
Hi SDA!
You know, it’s funny — I have a student in my classes at CSUS who thinks I and other “Deaf Militants” are that way because we are angry at having suffered Oral backgrounds. I’ve been trying to (gently) show him that it is not just ex-Oral people who support ASL and Deafhood, but many from a wide variety of walks of life, from those with Deaf families, to others with different backgrounds.
It seems like people see only what they want to see….
Monggy said,
July 28, 2008 @ 1:18 am
Hi Don,
your experiences were interesting, and I like listening to everbody’s experiences and learn from them. With me, I was adopted as a baby, my mother suspected I was deaf, so she took me to a doctor. The doctor confirmed her suspicions, and his advice to her was for her to return me to the adoption agency because a deaf child was a burden. He told mom that I would never learn past 3rd grade. That infuriated my mom so much she stormed out of his office clutching me to her breast. She spent alot of time doing research, and she found a sign language class that taught SEE. She learned the language, then turned around and taught me herself. She also taught me how to read by taping note cards to stuff around the house. For an example, she would tape the note card with “chair” written on it to the back of a chair. She carried me to the chair and pointed at the note card, made sure I was looking at it, then signed “chair.” By the time I was two, I was reading Dr. Seuss books without any effort. When I entered kindergarten, I was well advanced compared to my peers. I was mainstreamed with my own interpreters, and those interpreters were my mentors, babysitters and bodyguards, they were my bridge to the hearing world, and I adored them so much. If it wasn’t for them I would be living in a silent world. When I hit junior high, everything blew to hell, the chilldren I used to play with suddenedly turned on me and rejected me. I became an angry and sullen youth, I asked my parents to put me in the deaf school so I could be with my own “kind.” Well. that didn’t happen. I was too “hearing” for them and they insulted me daily by signing “hearing” on their foreheads. When I would drink from the water fountain I would get play humped from the behind by jocks, the fairheaded children of the deaf school, their parents were deaf, their grandparents, and so forth. The deaf teachers did not come to my aid. I fell between the cracks, my grades crashed, I started to hang out with the CODA kids because they were kind of misfits living in the ‘deaf world.” They would complain to me about themselves having to interpret for their deaf parents, and how they were so behind in school due to their “deaf” speech that they picked up from their deaf parents. Carrying that knowledge and scorn of the deaf world into adult hood, I had children of my own, and I abandoned the deaf world and high tailed it to the mountains. My children were hearing, and I did not want them to learn “deaf” speech or interpret for me, not even once. I sacrificed myself so my children would not get caught in that limbo between the “hearing” world and the “deaf” world. Through out their school years I had to struggle alot for my rights as a parent. Their teachers would talk to them about their grades and I would have no clue whatsoever what was going on. I would demand that the teachers talk to me, not the children, because they were the adults, not me. I would get left out of open houses, miss plays, miss sign ups for sports and such, because they would not email me. They preferred to call the house phone and leave a message. I got fed up with how insensitive the “hearing” world was to my needs as a parent so I could parent my children through out their school years more efficently. Right now, I do not know where I belong. I feel like if I totally supported the deafhood movement, I would be betraying my hearing mother who loved me so much she did not return me to the adoption agency, but instead, gave me the power of reading and signing, to think for myself. Also, betray my hearing children, that I carried under my heart for 9 months, through sweat and blood, bore them into the world…gave up my social life so they could lead normal lives. To support the hearing world, I would be giving up my rights as a person, and letting them hearing people walk all over me. It is like damned if I do, and damned if I don’t. I see pro’s and con’s everywhere in this discussion.
Karen Mayes said,
July 28, 2008 @ 5:23 am
Valhalian has valid points… usually actions speak louder than words.
Anyway, I went through similar path that you went, however, with less angerr…nah, nah, systems has nothing to do with it. It is HOW one chooses to roll with the punches that life throws at him/her.
I have seen at how one keeps retraining and reinforcing oneself with facts (bible, Koran, etc… in your case, Deafhood) which more or less colors his/her perspective… right or wrong? Neither. MM and Ben are just fine… they are NOT colonized. Hearing people also go through the same thing, analyzing and re-analyzing themselves.
You could check out Amy Cohen’s DeafVideo.TV, see the conversation between LaRanda and her, about change as constant and good. I saw Amy mentioning that “rigid ideology” was not good… I agree with her.
Okay, interesting vlogs… I understand where you are coming from now.
Take care.
Nick Vera said,
July 28, 2008 @ 5:34 am
Hi Don,
Good Morning! I found your vlog a wonderful sharing on your personal experience through the deaf life and your perspectives on Deafhood. I have been watching and reading the great controversial and perspectives on Deafhood by Paddy Ladd. In fact, I hate to see the great division of our community into the battlegrounds.
I hate to put myself in the middle zone between Deafhood and DBC. I truly support both their conceptual missions and am hoping to see the collaboration of our ensemble community with our love and support family.
Again, I truly enjoyed the series of your vlogs recently and I had the similiar experience. Everyone has their background experience to confront through childhood. In the past, no one knew about deaf and ASL and the hearing children assumed that we were imperfect in our soceity. With this time, most schools are offering ASL classes including deaf history and culture to raise their awareness in respect indivdually. I grew up with deaf and mild-celebral palsy. My disfunctional family were not great. My parents were divorced when I was very young before 5 years old along with my hearing siblings. I had mixed up my feelings during my childhood about being deaf. During my childhood, my father wanted me along with my siblings to visit him in Mexico City, Mexico during the summer for three months. When I graduated from Mary E. Bennett School (oral educational school), I went to California School for the Deaf in Riverside in September 9, 1975. Their culture shocked me to see everyone’s sign language. However, they saw me different person with celebral palsy (in the term of CP, I was ashamed to mention during my childhood to early Adulthood and learned it from my mother, in fact, I was upset with her for not aware. Apparently, I was very passive all my life). They made fun of me and asked me these questions that I was unable to express the right answer. When my teenager years arrived, I started to realized that I was very lonely in Mexico City with my hearing siblings. My family were not communicate me very well. Sometimes, they briefed with me. I missed my deaf friends especially my mom in Los Angeles, CA. The summer was too long to wait for me to see friends until the fall. You know what I mean?
Until DPN was born, the shine brightened my happiness of being deaf. I involved in acting with deaf theatre for almost 9 years and decided to pursue my career at NTID and Gallaudet University. After graduating from both schools, my education increased my self-esteem and deaf pride especially rich experience among the wonderful people in both campuses. I truly thanked them for their giving my motivation to study harder and involved with students with various background including classroom discussion and social life especially the wonderful technology in the classroom.
Beside my life, I recognized your previous vlog about your early childhood attending Arroyo Elementary. Where is that school? In Santa Ana, Pomona, or El Sereno? You must be a California Native. It was good to see you on your vlog to share our audience. Thank you!
I do support Deafhood concept despite of other people’s opinion. Everyone have their rights to express their opinion and views on Paddy Ladd’s book. I knew both U.K. and North America are quite different in the cultural approaches with the political system (Capitalism and Socialism), however, I do support this concept to analyze myself to understand what Deaf does mean to me. I do respect for others despite of our differences and our love for harmony on Earth. DBC is exclusively focusing on the deaf babies to acquire ASL at early babyhood to develop the literacy skills well.
Thank you for your listening my comments. Stay postive for all of us.
Take care,
Nick
Shelley said,
July 28, 2008 @ 6:40 am
Don G.,
Thank you for sharing your experiences with us.
I have not yet read Paddy Ladd’s book, but I have attended one Deafhood workshop.
However, you’re correct in that we cannot sit back and complain about the state of things in the Deaf community. We have to contribute to unity of the Deaf Community. This doesn’t mean groupthink, but it does mean respect, and contributing to a healthy discourse free from bashing. It also means respect for the importance of both ASL and English as EQUAL languages.
One thing my life has taught me is that you CANNOT separate language from culture, nor can you distance yourself from the impact of historical events, both good and bad, personal and societal.
Therefore when educating others, you must first understand your community’s past, and the past your country has gone through. As a history major, I understand the importance of history in your life.
I cannot imagine separating history and culture from language. If you try, it can do more harm. I’m a firm believer in the axiom that if you don’t know history, you’re doomed to repeat it.
Shel
DrDonG said,
July 28, 2008 @ 8:49 am
Monggy –
Your story is so sad — nobody deserves that kind of treatment from anybody, Deaf or Hearing. This is my hope with Deafhood — that we can come to a point where the future “you” would not have gone through any of those negative experiences and you could find acceptance among your own kind.
I do not believe that to support Deafhood would be to betray your mother (who I applaud for working so hard to help you learn to read in the best way she could figure to — the one factor that consistently shows up in academic achievement of students is parent involvement, Hearing or Deaf) since she obviously wanted you to become a proud, independent person, or to reject your Hearing children (I have 2 Hearing children of my own, and love them even though they can hear (and do get on my nerves at times, but that’s a separate issue….
).
I do wish you the best of luck in resolving where you stand in the world.
DrDonG said,
July 28, 2008 @ 8:53 am
Karen –
I happened to come across an old video (blog or DVTV?) you made — it was nice to finally put a face to the name. BTW, I’m good friends with your ISD supt. — David Geeslin — we’ve known each other since we attended Gallaudet.
Thanks for pointing me to Amy’s and Laronda’s discussion. Would like to check it out, but I don’t want to wade through the zillions of DVTV posts — can you give me a specific link or keywords to get to that?
DrDonG said,
July 28, 2008 @ 9:00 am
Hi Nick–
Thanks for sharing your story. You mean your mom is Deaf too? Arroyo Elementary was in Simi Valley, but I don’t remember which town it was in now. Been a VERY long time since then….
Yes, England and the U.S. do have different political and cultural systems, but in many ways, it seems that Deaf culture in both countries is similar, despite those differences. But Paddy, in the book “Open Your Eyes” did make some observations about how Deafhood does seem to be expressed somewhat differently in both countries due to those Hearing cultural differences. It is an interesting observation that I haven’t fully digested yet.
Karen Mayes said,
July 28, 2008 @ 9:23 am
Dave Geeslin is awesome… we have great chats :O) He is very open-minded and believes in oracy as part of Bi Bi philosophy, realizing that SOME (I never say all…;o) ) deaf children can benefit from talking and speaking.
Let me look… here it is: http://www.deafvideo.tv/video/watch/15504/.
Nick Vera said,
July 28, 2008 @ 10:01 am
Hi Don,
Thank you for your kindly responsive. No, my mom is hearing including the rest of my family are hearing. With the genetic discovery from Gallaudet, my DNA revealed genetically, not coming from environment. Then I asked my mom about it. She informed me in about two years ago that my grandmother and great-grandfather on the same family line were hard of hearing. Ironically, they don’t sign. Personally, I believed that the doctors were not allowed to reveal ASL to them. That’s why they never saw any deaf people before.
Also thank you for the reference of Deafhood book. My mom has it and I will borrow her book. She is currently fluent in ASL interpreting at Antelope Valley College in Lancaster, California.
Nick
P.S. Some of my family knew ASL.
Brian L. Mayes said,
July 28, 2008 @ 10:50 am
Well, I’m at work so I can’t see the videos (will look at them when I get home), but I can get the point from all the other comments.
Well, mine was totally different from most above. I’ll give a short version of it for now.
I was born deaf from a long line of deaf on my mother’s side - 5 generations actually. Of course, I didn’t find that out until I was in my 30’s and it was my wife who asked my mother after we found out my son was deaf. Of course, I was pissed about it and I guess I still am. My mother was ashamed of her deafness as well as her mother. I guess, it was the oppression you all call it of the 30’s and 40’s. Yes, history does repeat itself like Shelly says as I will explain more later. I know my parent cared for me the best way they knew how by giving up a lot of their dreams for me…
But I never grew up oppressed from the hearing cuz the hearing didn’t have the chance to find out I was deaf. I just never told them. I guess, I was ashamed of it like my mother. I guess things do get passed down from parents to kids more than we think…? I most of the time came into an environment as someone nobody wanted to f**k with. (Sorry for the swear work, but I can’t express it any better) I was very aggressive and head-strong. Of course, it didn’t help that I went to 14 different schools in my 12 grades. My parent were never home as they were always working and “never” had time for me. I got into a lot of trouble and schools didn’t know what to do with me other than kick me out and my parent never bothered to figure out what was wrong with me and just put me into a different school. I clearly remember my dad telling me that cuz I’m deaf and doing so poorly in school and there were not a lot of opportunities for me that I better be good at sports otherwise…
The social issue was never really a problem cuz I was a jock, very outgoing and I partied hard. In fact, my nickname was “wildman”… Funny thing is that is the name I got no matters what school I went to. Kinda strange. So, I kept with the wildman thing cuz it got me attention and I guess I liked it. Of course, I’m paying the price for it now with all my health problems. My hands are always sore and aching. I also have mental issue too, but that is another story. Yea, fighting was another one of my past-times. And a lot of them was over misunderstandings on my part. Communication was not my strong suit, it was my actions and jokes. Still is to this day…
When I finally graduated high school and went to college - I found out that my reading level was only 7th grade. And I’m telling you, I was royally pissed off! Mostly at my parent and I guess I still am. But I didn’t take pity at myself and in the fact that I was deaf and give up. I took “bonehead” classes and pulled my reading level up to 12th grade in a year and learned that I could do anything. I distance myself from my parents thinking that they were bad influence and changed my life forever. I moved to Rochester, NY from Montana as that was as far as I could get from my parents as possible.
Yep, I went to RIT. My first year had the biggest impact on my life. At age 25, I was starting to learn things! Sad, but true. SVP was a joke and I made sure that NTID and the “deaf” knew it too. I was treated like crap by both the deaf teachers and students. First, the teachers/counselors told me that I COULD NOT do RIT. Only the hearing oppress deaf?? I THINK NOT! Well, I proved the teachers/counselors wrong and showed them that I could take RIT classes. The deafies were the worst tho… I came into RIT not knowing any sign language and of course, was rejected big time. Not that I didn’t try, I tried writing on pencil and paper and boy! did I get some of the dirtiest looks. It is a thing that only the deaf do to hearing people and not among other deaf. Well, me being me, I told the deaf world that they can go to hell! It was not until spring of that year that I found my group of oral deaf and stuck with them. And I can tell you that the deaf was divided at RIT. Of course, it didn’t stop me from going to “deaf” parties cuz I guess they were scared of me and it was where I learned signing by watching others sign and mouthing the words.
Yea, I guess those were my angry years.
Then I met my wife. My life changed all over again. Bless her, she made me see things in a more positive way and I discovered who I am and to train myself to be a better person. I am not going to say that she did it for me cuz she will get disappointed at me for saying that and really, I did it for myself. Those years were the hardest years of my life and I still struggle with it. I’m still learning and I know I have a ways to go… Especially in respect for pro-deaf people - the deaf people on the other side of the great divide.
Now, knowing me, you can see where I have problems with “Deaf” and deafhood… It is just another group to divide from the general deaf population like at RIT among other places. Another group to oppress more deaf people. Especially the oral deaf or deaf people who are open-minded. I have a huge beef with it and will continue to show it. You can’t tell me that is it not so cuz I can prove to you otherwise: not too long ago, we had a group of deaf come to my home to celebrate a birthday party for another person. One deaf girl ask my son if he liked mainstreaming and he said yes and that girl said that he was being brainwashed! Well, shit! Oppression?? Divided? OH YEA! And where does a girl like that get around talking like that? Parents? Deaf school? Deaf teachers? Deafhood?? Pro-deaf people?
So, does history repeats itself? Of course, it does, I don’t care how much history you know about your culture, it still repeats itself and will never go away. Only the person has the power to make history happen.
DrDonG said,
July 28, 2008 @ 11:51 am
Karen –
Your comment about “oracy” points to a common misperception of ASL and Bi/Bi advocates — we are not arguing against speech skills — we do recognize that it can be of benefit FOR THOSE WHO CAN HEAR ENOUGH TO LEARN SPEECH, but we believe that speech skills are NOT the be-all and end-all for Deaf children. For us, Literacy and “Signacy” take much higher precedence than “oracy”. It is more important and essential that all Deaf be able to read and write English (at least as well as a Hearing learner of English as a second language) than to be able to speak it, and of course, we believe that the path to learning English is through a solid foundation in ASL.
Thanks for the link to the Amy/LaRonda discussion.
Brian L. Mayes said,
July 28, 2008 @ 12:13 pm
Don –
“we do recognize that it can be of benefit FOR THOSE WHO CAN HEAR ENOUGH TO LEARN SPEECH, but we believe that speech skills are NOT the be-all and end-all for Deaf children.” That is the GREATEST IRONY or MYTH. I was born deaf, pro-founded deaf and I speak very well! I know a lot of deaf people who have no hearing nerves who speak better than me! So, please, refrain from using those words cuz it is simply false and it is a deafhood mythology that needs to be remove. And the same applies to ASL, it is not the be-all and end-all for Deaf children! Simply another myth. Please, be open-minded and show a little respect cuz you just disrespected me and my son among many thousands if not millions of other individuals. If you want unity, you are going to have to simply remove that kind of thinking…
I just needed to make a stand here. I hate it when people state the obvious lies.
Thank you!
Shelley said,
July 28, 2008 @ 12:47 pm
Brian,
One quick question: What is SVP? I never attended RIT so I have no idea.
Thank you for sharing your story so that I can better understand where you are coming from with your comments, especially the angry ones.
The only thing I can say right now (due to the fact I”m in the middle of a course so time is an issue for me :-)) is that you shouldn’t have gone through all that. But you have. You say that history does repeat itself. Yes, it does, IF people do not learn the lessons inherent in history (which also includes the stories of individuals) or make changes in their own lives. History stops repeating itself once we find the will and resources to break the cycles.
During this discourse, we find out more about each other, and that is a good thing. Hopefully, this will lead to more positive dialogue than negative flaming in the future.
Sometime in the near future (once I finish this darned course), I will share my own story as you, Monggy and Don G, have.
Perhaps in the sharing of stories, we will be able to begin to breach the “Great Divide”?
Shel
Karen Mayes said,
July 28, 2008 @ 2:01 pm
Whoa, hold on. I know more about oracy than you think.
We all keep overlooking a minority of deaf children who happen to be “aural” learners… who learn academics best through listening. My son is one of them. When he had an ASL interpreter in the mainstream setting, he would NOT give her the time of the day… instead, he ignored her most of the time, preferring to listen to the teacher through FM or hearing aids. Even ISD REFUSED to consider the full time placement for him; instead offered part time placement to him, because he was a “native English user.”
So, NOT all deaf children are alike… some deaf children learn English best through oracy, whether you believe it or not. I KNOW… because I am a mother of an aural deaf child. AND a mother of another deaf child… who happens to be visual/spatial learner… so she learns English through ASL, no question about it.
AND both of my kids are above grade average… just different learning styles.
That is why I view literacy, signacy and oracy in a different way.
DrDonG said,
July 28, 2008 @ 3:51 pm
Brian,
Before I comment further, did you at least take the time to watch the videos?
Karen,
I’m not denying that there may be a SMALL minority of Deaf that might be “aural” learners. But in my experience, this is a VERY small minority. Most of us are visually-oriented. And the problem is, that it is impossible to identify which ones are going to turn out to be “aurally-oriented”. This is why we are advocating for ASL for ALL Deaf children first — if the child later turns out to be aurally-oriented, fine, no harm done (remember CODAs are aurally-oriented too, but they can access language visually as well).
Shel — I had the same question about “SVP”. And yes, maybe sharing of our stories could help us to understand each other better.
Valhallian said,
July 28, 2008 @ 4:35 pm
Don, aye, your views are clearer with the explanations and I thank you for that. What I am seeing is that you are taking Paddy’s definitions and expanding upon it further and that is ok because I would actually prefer to choose your definitions of deafhood over Paddy’s own defintiions, simply because you are expanding it it to include non-signers.
However, I still differ with the opinion of the “audistic society to try to make deaf people into hearing people”, simply because that will never happen, unless there is that stem cell cocnhlear transplant that actually makes the deaf person 100% hearing on a 24/7 basis. A CI user, regardless of how well he or she can hear and speak with the use of the CI, is still deaf at the end of the day when he or she takes off the CI.
My view is that there are people out there that want to help deaf people to be able to adapt themselves to fit in the hearing world based on their listening/lip-reading and speaking skills. We all know that unfortunately the world has many hearing people that just do not have the patienceHowever you want to label these people is certainly your right as we do live in a free country, its free enough so that people may be able to disagree too and thats ok too.
I do see what youre saying, hate the system but love the user. But that is quite hard to express when you are talking to the user, and yet you are bashing the system that he or she utilizes, how do you think that person is supposed to feel? You will still make him feel inferior regardless.
Valhallian said,
July 28, 2008 @ 4:37 pm
SVP means Summer Vesitibule Program, its basically a freshman orientation program that they attend before their freshman fall quarter begins.
Valhallian said,
July 28, 2008 @ 4:44 pm
Don, That’s pretty much a “real question” here. Considering the fact that 95% of deaf babies are born to hearing parents and the skyrocketing popularity of CI/AVT, are you sure that aural learning is actually a very small minority among deaf children. I don’t even know the answer myself which is why I am asking, however, I am imagining that it may not be as small as you claim.
Joseph Pietro Riolo said,
July 28, 2008 @ 5:38 pm
If I may be permitted to jump in even though the question is not directed to me, SVP means “Summer Vestibule Program”. More information about it can be found at http://www.ntid.rit.edu/prospective/svp.php .
Joseph Pietro Riolo
josephpietrojeungriolo@gmail.com
SVP ‘80, RIT Alumnus ‘85
DrDonG said,
July 28, 2008 @ 6:33 pm
Eric/Val. –
Honestly, I don’t know the answer to your second question yet. I have seen some of the studies that claim C.I.s “work”, but when you look at what they were really looking at, it really varies in how they defined “success” — just sound discrimination? whole speech comprehension? Spoken language production? Written English production? Overall academic skills? And even then, their definitions of “success” sometimes strike me as just a bit stretched from what most people would take the term to mean. And then there is what I would take as the ultimate definition of “success” — are the majority of CI implantees who were implanted as young children or babies entirely satisified with their implant, social experiences and academic experiences as adults? This last question has yet to be answered because most of the implantees are still in their childhood or just entering their teens now.
And, let’s not forget, as you pointed out, CI implantees, at the end of the day and during some situations, are still “deaf”. Are they developing a healthy sense of identity as a Deaf person (with an implant), or are they being led to think of themselves as “Hearing” people like I was?
Ann_C said,
July 28, 2008 @ 7:08 pm
Dr DonG,
Valhallian raises some interesting points.
The small minority of aural learners may be much greater than you think. Oral deaf adults have encountered enough rejection and villification by a small minority who use ASL and are enculturated, they probably figure it’s a waste of their time to even give their point of view online. I know, as an oral deaf person primarily immersed in the hearing world, I’ve encountered that “hearing” on the forehead sign in person and often wonder why I even bother with posting comments to some very biased v/blogs.
There is an incredible amount of mythology or misinformation about oral deaf that boggles my mind sometimes. Those of Deaf culture who claim deaf purism only thru ASL are only seeing one aspect of the deaf community overall and they don’t bother to “listen” to any other view. I take the view that the “one size fits all” solution doesn’t fit every deaf person’s needs.
Secondly, I read somewhere online (can’t remember exactly where, perhaps CIO, Rachel’s blog?) that there are approximately 160,000 cochlear implantees in this country at present, some of them are infants who will gain speech skills thru AVT as they grow up. Some of those will not use ASL or have any desire to know the language. The number of cochlear implantees continue on the rise– technology is a train you can’t stop.
As long as there are a vocal FEW in Deaf culture who continue to degrade/reject the oral deaf, the deaf community will be seen as a closed community with closed arms by the future generations of deaf who become cochlear implantees. To allow the few to dictate a closed-arms policy will cost the deaf community dearly.
Valhallian said,
July 28, 2008 @ 7:19 pm
Don, I would imagine that the answer to your last question would depend on the fact whether or not they are welcomed to the deaf community with open arms and no hesitations on their part. Wouldn’t you agree?
DrDonG said,
July 28, 2008 @ 7:32 pm
Ann C. & Val. –
You both said pretty much the same thing. I do agree that the Deaf community has to work on showing its acceptance of the INDIVIDUALS with the implants, but at the same time, aren’t we allowed to express why we feel that the implant is not good for our community? If we are targeting the medical system (including the CI companies, AGB, the House Ear Institute, etc.) that promotes implants, how is that saying that the individuals who have implants are not welcome? I definitely support not directing any anger or hostility towards those who have implants — some of them might not have had any choice in the matter — but to say that we have to hold our piece (or is that “peace”?) entirely is just as repressive of dissenting ideas as some of us have been accusing each other of doing, isn’t it?
Valhallian said,
July 28, 2008 @ 8:14 pm
Well Don, the problem is that if you try to target the medical system, you are missing out on targeting other possibly more important variables outside of the medical system that lead to failures. Its had been medically proven that the CI does work. Its not the medical model that needs to be targeted here, but more of the decision-making, therapy, and parental involvement that needs to be targeted here. I would imagine that those three areas are to blame more than the medical model itself. The medical model itself is actually the easy part, the hard part is what is actually after the CI surgery.
For example, trying to ensure that AG Bell makes every attempt to make sure that the parents are fully aware of the importance of their own involvement with their child’s therapy sessions both at the AVT session and the homeplace is one thing, because without that odds are that it is the biggest variable that leads to failures. Ensuring that each and every AVT program is fully adequate to meet the full needs of the AVT student and parent, that would be a good thing too. I think we would be more productive as a “watchdog” group as opposed to being an “attack dog”. Show that we are looking out for these people too and that will earn significatly more respect from them towards our end, when you have that respect, you have more involvement into our own deaf community and culture.
Ann_C said,
July 28, 2008 @ 10:03 pm
Perhaps to even question the implant as not good for the deaf community is to question the cochlear implantee as not being ‘ deaf enough’.
Whether it was his choice or not.
DrDonG said,
July 28, 2008 @ 10:57 pm
To me, I draw a big distinction between questioning the implant and the motives behind it (for AGB et al.) and saying the implantee himself is not “Deaf enough”.
I need the night to think of my reasons why there is a difference, so will get back to you on that in the morning, hopefully.
Jean Boutcher said,
July 28, 2008 @ 11:09 pm
Don,
The process of Deafhood varies from deaf individual to deaf individual as evinced by comments posted herein. Albeit born profoundly deaf to the the late-deafened father and early deafened mother, they sent me to a private Catholic oral school at St. Francis Xavier’s because the school’s nuns offered classic education that was not offered in a residential school from which my mother was educated. I could sign prior to entering the oral school. I had never had any negative experience at the said oral school because the nuns treated us very gently. Extremely well-edcuated themselves, they were keenly aware and much more realistic that excellent speech and lipreading amongst few students were termed “rare avis”. That was why they never treated us the way the AGBell teachers do to students who struggle. I had a very happy childhood at the oral school. Most unfortunately, the school became defunct; thereby transferring me to a residential school.
Why not epistle a book, “Confessions of St. DonaldG”?
I so throughly enjoyed your three vlogs.
Bonsoir,
Jean Boutcher
– something that is manna from the sky.
mcconnell said,
July 29, 2008 @ 6:28 am
Exactly, Ann. What people do not realize when it comes to focusing on the device itself (ie cochlear implant, hearing aid) as saying it’s “no good” ignores the person who wears that device who derive a great many benefits from it. In short, the person may feel you are attacking him/her when rerally that wasn’t the intention. The same goes for communication and listening methods where deaf and hh people have derived great benefits out of those. Not all. But many. Many are very successful and are happy. Many are satisfied. Many are so-so. And many are not successful with it and are disappointed or even disgusted. That’s how life works. That’s the reality. Attack the device or organization then you are literally attacking the people who have derive great benefits from hearing aids, cochlear implants, communication preferences, oral and aural methodologies and so on. Just because it didn’t work for YOU doesn’t mean it won’t work for others. It has and it will continue to show these successes however many there are. Just a stark reality to realize that many simply do not accept.
Technology today makes this possible and afford many opportunities for those to speak and listen successfully. And for it to be successful early hearing screening for babies and early interventon (along with good follow-ups) ensures these successes. It’s a fact. It works. Not 100% but it works.
Regardless of how these things are done I have always understood the importance of showing respect to parents and deaf and hard of hearing people irrespective of their communication preferrences, communication devices or methodologies used to become successful. It is just makes good, plain common sense to do so. What works for one doesn’t mean it’ll work for another. People with hearing loss just end up on having a preference because it simply works for them and that they are quite comfortable with it. There were a lot of factors that lead to these successes and people feeling confident in who they are and the abilities they have.
Dianrez said,
July 29, 2008 @ 8:21 am
There was a phrase that seemed to kick off misdirected commentary:
“but we believe that speech skills are NOT the be-all and end-all for Deaf children.”
That meant to me, not to downgrade speech skills, but that it shouldn’t be THE end goal.
Thinking and learning skills are the ultimate goal…not just learning to talk.
Speech skills are useful and often necessary, but are just ONE skill in achieving the end goal: ability to learn and process information. There are many skills such as ASL, reading, analysis, research, and experimentation. All have the same end goal: learning.
This is where many Deaf people get upset when hearing parents decide that speech skills and arriving at them is the goal of all their efforts, as if they are thinking that there is no other way to learn or that learning is simply an afterthought.
Shelley said,
July 29, 2008 @ 9:26 am
Well said, Dianrez!
“…when hearing parents decide that speech skills and arriving at them is the goal of all their efforts, as if they are thinking that there is no other way to learn or that learning is simply an afterthought.”
THAT is the crux of the whole problem. That is the message we keep getting from the whole hearing establishment.
When I see AGBell promote “TalkStrong, ListenStrong”, and see videotapes of teary-eyed parents saying “My son can speak!” without any discussions of literacy skills, it sends the message that in order for people to be smart, they must be able to speak. It emphasizes the message that literacy skills is not as important as being able to “listen and speak.”
Where is the emphasis on the WHOLE CHILD?
Shel
DrDonG said,
July 29, 2008 @ 9:35 am
Jean –
Sorry, can’t do that. I’m Jewish, so cannot be considered for Sainthood…. (hey, there’s another “hood” term….)
I never really had negative experiences with the oral training myself, other than the boring, routine drills. My problem was in the application of oralism — at the part where Oralism hopes to see its success — in the integration of the Deaf with Hearing people — obviously, that is where it failed for me, since it is physically impossible for me to do so.
Dianrez and Shel –
Yes, that is what I meant by “not being the be-all and end-all”. It is amazing how many people seem to take that idea the wrong way.
DrDonG said,
July 29, 2008 @ 9:50 am
Ann C. & McConnell –
Ok, I’ve had the night to sleep on it and try to think on what the distinction is. I still haven’t gotten it down perfectly, but:
1) I’ve already explained my (our) concerns for the impacts of C.I. and other future hearing technologies on the Deaf Community and existence of ASL. This is not criticizing the users — it is criticizing the motives behind those who work to develop these technologies. I recall one C.I. scientist or doctor saying about 5 - 7 years ago that the Deaf community and ASL would now be “obsolete” because of the C.I. or something to that effect. This is a clear indication of their motivations for developing these technologies.
2) The “C.I./Oralist complex” (to coin a term) is a large, well-organized system that has made it their goal to assimilate Deaf people and eliminate our uniqueness from society. In my discussions with NACPAC, I’ve said that she and other Deaf with implants can be able to hold on to their already-developed Deaf identities. Having an implant doesn’t mean that they then become “not Deaf enough”. I have never criticized NACPAC (and I know her personally) or others I know with implants for having them — I have asked WHY they chose to get them, and they presented their reasons which had validity from their perspectives. I did discuss my concerns about how their use of implants can send a message to those uninformed Hearing parents and the C.I./Oralist complex that they can then go ahead with their uninformed assumptions about our culture and language. One respondent on this site did tell me tthat he had the same concerns and did do his best to try to reduce this issue when he could (I think this was in the “open letter to the ASL/CI community”post.
So, this is the best I can do for now in disambiguating criticisms of the CI/Oralist complex from being critical of CI users (which I am trying not to be).
nacpac said,
July 29, 2008 @ 11:16 am
Where do I start? I have a few thoughts swimming in my head . . . yeah, I will focus on one that haven’t been discussed here.
OH, before I start, thanks for respecting my decision for getting a CI for my kid. An year ago I remember you mentioning to me point blank that I am setting a bad example for my students and the greater community. I appreciate your bluntness, but I beg to differ. I strongly believe I am setting a good example. Why? to show the world that I am not removing ASL from our lives and that a CI is just like a hearing aid. A hearing aid benefitted you and it didn’t my child, so I opted for a CI. You are right, it is the system that is the problem. It sees a child with a CI as a hearing kid with hearing loss. No need to elaborate as you have discussed this in your vlogs.
I do understand why that person you mentioned in ur comment above said Deafness and the community will be obsolete with the CI in picture. He did not mean any malice or whatever. He along with many know that deafness is a huge financial burden on society. I know that and you do too. But what he didnt realize is that Ci does not make a deaf person fully hearing. Many of us still need sign language in our lives. This is what keeps the culture alive.
What would you say if a new hearing technology was invited to totally cure deafness? What I mean by TOTALLY CURE is to give the child normal hearing even in noise. Would you then say, okay.. at least those children will not grow up playing the guessing game, feeling left out, and all the common struggles and negativity experienced by an oral child/person? Me curious about your response. I would say YES, absolutely! I will grieve for the dying of ASL and my precious Deaf heritage. It would hurt me deeply, but I can not be selfish.
Okay… now finally to my specific thought I want to share with you. In your vlog, you said, “About Ben Vess, I understand that society and the system have influenced him to think that way instead of the Deaf cultural way.”
YIKES.
Really?
I could interpret this as you seeing yourself as “saved” by Deafhood and he isn’t. Ben needs guidance to see the “light”?
Deafhood God?
Just kidding a little here, but come on, Don…. Ben has had a completely different life journey than yours. Deaf parents , Deaf school, he is hard of hearing and has a strong Deaf identity. He is who he is and you are who you are. I am who I am….all based on our upbringing. I have to disagree that Ben was INFLUENCED by the system as if he is being blinded by the system. Am I being influenced by society by giving my child a cochlear implant? Nope. My child and I are DEAF by defnition and by culture criteria. We are already grounded and it goes the same for Ben. He and I are those who seek for more opportunities in life. Heck, why not!
You need to know I agree ith you wholeheartedly that most deaf children in oralism should be exposed to ASL and the Deaf community to make the child a whole being.
Well, guess what? The Deaf world is limiting in my opinion. I am not being influenced by society in thinking that it is better to be hearing. I am an opportunist and I want my kid to have even more opportunities than I had and than my parents had and much much more than what my great parents had. Speaking of survival of the fittest, to survive better in the future, you need to think on your own and avoid groupthink.
I think I will stop now. If you have time, please respond to my question about the cure-all.
nacpac said,
July 29, 2008 @ 11:22 am
Me rude, I forgot to thank you for sharing your life story. It enabled me to better understand you and the others who share the same experience. You are no longer radical in my eyes. An activist, yes, but not a militant. (o:
Deafhood does not seem so stupid after all. Hey, do no think youre winning a convert!
Shalom!
mcconnell said,
July 29, 2008 @ 12:57 pm
The “C.I./Oralist complex” (to coin a term) is a large, well-organized system that has made it their goal to assimilate Deaf people and eliminate our uniqueness from society.”
A well-organized system with the goal to assimilate and eliminate Deaf people (i.e. Deaf culture)? I think that’s going a bit down the paranoia route than anything else. A goal may be to see that hearing loss be cured which is not the same thing as a goal to eliminate Deaf society. They don’t say that “Our goal is to eliminate Deaf society.” No. Their goal is to either see that hearing loss be cured someday or that, currently, their goal is that deaf/hh people be given the opportunity to hear and benefit from the use of technology such as cochlear implants and hearing aids. Just so happens that the by-product of that would undoubtedly leave with less deaf/hh people to become Deaf people or be exposed to ASL or other Deaf people. This would especially be true when the time comes that certain hearing loss (ie sensorineural) would be easily corrected and cured from babies to adults.
DrDonG said,
July 29, 2008 @ 3:06 pm
Hi NACPAC –
As I recall our conversation that day, I remember it as I asked you if you thought or were concerned that you might be sending the wrong message out to your students or parents — I didn’t flat-out accuse you of doing so. But, we didn’t know each other that well at that time, so it’s quite possible that you took my blunt question as an accusation. If I did actually make the accusation, then I apologize — that wasn’t my intention. I think we know each other well enough now that you know how I am with bluntness.
As for “deafness” being a huge burden on society, I contend that it is society that has made “deafness” the burden by not providing adequate access to language and education for Deaf children. If more than 95% of Deaf people could leave school with average literacy, communication, knowledge and educational levels as Hearing people, then the “burden” on society would be almost nothing.
As for a “total cure”, I’ve discussed this in my Deaf Culture class. If there was a 100% cure that enabled Deaf to hear in EXACTLY the same manner as a Hearing person and the Deaf person did not have to go through any “therapy” process to learn how to hear or speak, but just picked it up as Hearing people do, then I think we would be hard pressed to speak (figuratively, in this case, huh?) against it. However, we do have a unique culture and language. Is it right for another group to deliberately take steps to eradicate other cultures and languages? Yes, it has happened, but more and more people are aware that it should not. Should White people invent a pill to remove all the excess melanin from Black people’s skins so that they can look White and not experience the prejudice that they experience because they are Black? Should English-speaking people say that the people of Spain are speaking an inferior language and that they should stop speaking Spanish and only speak English? So, is it ok for Hearing people to invent some technology or medicine to eliminate our “deafness” and language?
As for that scientist, I don’t know if there was malice or not. But it is definitely representative of the viewpoint that ASL and Deaf Culture is irrelevant compared to Hearing culture and English.
As for my comments about Ben (or by extension, you), definitely you two have had different upbringins than I have. But, as I’ve already pointed out, Deafhood is not just for those of us who had to learn or develop our Deaf identity — I know many Deaf of Deaf who also support the Deafhood concept. How is it that we, who have had different experiences growing up, have come to such similar (as well as divergent) perspectives?
You believe that the Deaf world is limiting…. well, which is more limiting… isolation in the Hearing world, or experiencing a pretty broad community of Deaf people (as well as Deaf from all over the world)? Do people who live in Chinatown or Little Italy feel their lives are limited?
And thank you for seeing me as an activist. That’s what I’ve been trying to say for a while now. Do me a favor and tell that to a certain student of mine who sees me as only a militant, even though I’ve been trying to show him that it is not truly militance, but strong activism.
But I may be winning a “convert”? YAY!
–DonG.
DrDonG said,
July 29, 2008 @ 3:07 pm
McConnell–
I know nothing I say is going to convince you, but I am hardly being “paranoid”. As they say in the “X Files”, “The Truth is out there”.
mcconnell said,
July 29, 2008 @ 5:39 pm
Well, when you go about stating such goals by organizations claiming they have in mind to eliminate Deaf people as a culture as if it’s a fact then it certainly does question the sanity of such statements. What you have presented is merely an opinion believing it to be the case…not a fact. If you have hard, physical evidences then that’s one thing but not having them simply gives you no teeth to back up your claims. It’s simple as that.
For example, I am for biotechnology applications such as stem cells for the regeneration of hearing nerve cells or for the total restoration of hearing (ie. a cure for deafness). Does that mean I am purposely targeting for the elimination of Deaf people as a culture? No. Just as organizations have different philosophies in how deafness is treated and how people with hearing loss are addressed and not about the “evil” planning for the destruction of Deaf people as a culture everywhere. From where I am sitting on what you are saying, Dr. DonG, sounds a bit paranoid to me and to many others.
DrDonG said,
July 29, 2008 @ 6:01 pm
McConnell –
I’m not saying you’re targeting Deaf culture for elimination. But the CI and Biotech companies, through their actions, whether they intend to deliberately or not, are. A follows B and leads to C. Simple as that.
mcconnell said,
July 29, 2008 @ 6:53 pm
Um, again, it’d be a conspiracy rather some that “A follows B that leads to C.” They are targeting deaf people, sure. But that does not equate as the same as having a goal on eliminating Deaf people. It simply does not make any sense because there are many CI users who are Deaf. So, there goes that theory.
Ella Lentz said,
July 30, 2008 @ 12:19 am
Just want to thank you, DonG, for all the great vlogs you’ve been doing..not just those 3. Stimulating. Also, it’s educational to watch you respond to others’ comments. I just want you to know that I appreciate what you are doing. Thanks!
Karen Mayes said,
July 30, 2008 @ 8:20 am
Thought you’d be interesting in checking this link out:
http://www.deafvideo.tv/video/watch/15676/
nacpac said,
July 31, 2008 @ 12:08 pm
Don,
I enjoyed reading your response to my comment along with responses you made to other commenters. Despite our differences, we do think a lot alike. Smile.
Thanks for the laughs. I’ll take care of that student. He certainly got a mind of his own and I admire him for that.
Speaking of converting . . . Nah, I am a culturally-Deaf fence sitter. I enjoy the bird’s eye view!
Adios!