Deaf Community: Cultural Values and Double Standards
I stood back, struck with amazement and sadness at the furor, hurt, and anger within the Deaf Community. Are we so different from each other that we truly cannot understand each other and come to full acceptance of everybody?
First of all, I do not want to see anyone hurt, nor do I want anyone fired from their job. I was aghast when I heard about that. I am glad to see the cooling off period and hope we can have a harmonious discourse without the bashing and negativity. Despite our different opinions, mutual respect must be practiced by all parties.
Some people feel because I revealed about the strong themes of Deafhood within the DBC, I am against DBC, wanting to destroy this organization. Actually, no. Speaking the truth doesn’t necessarily hurt the organization, but empowers the Deaf Community to know where the organization fully stands so better informed decisions can be made by Deaf people. This way, both the organization and the Deaf Community are further strengthened.
If people recollect, I’ve always praised the amazing success of the DBC conference, considering that DBC is less than one year old. Many Deaf people reasonate with DBC’s themes so as far as I am concerned, it’s on the right track. I never dispute that.
I want to stress this: If DBC wants to practice Bilingualism and Deafhood with its DBC participants comfortable with these themes, then they should go ahead. Some people may disagree, but we cannot please everybody. It’s impossible to meet the needs of all D/deaf people. As far as I am concerned, DBC met successfully the needs of many Deaf people who were oppressed and harmed by the oralism system. It’s basically a group for oral survivors, too. These people need to be heard and acknowledged by the world. Where is any forum that these oral survivors can meet to share their painful experiences and reiterate the reasons for their strong support for ASL with deaf babies and children? So far, there has been none, so this is sorely overdue. The current parents need to be aware of this dark legacy the ABGell and oral education system are too anxious to bury. Believe me, this dark chapter should be exposed to the light, so the Deaf people can heal, hearing parents be fully informed, and hopefully the oral education system will be forced to be held accountable. This dark legacy cannot continue to be hidden. Where is the justice for the oral education survivors? Kudos to DBC for being there for the oral survivors!
Also if some Deaf people are against cochlear implants, AVT, and/or oralism, they are certainly entitled to their beliefs. We have many people within the AGBell system who are against ASL and feel Deaf Community is ‘isolated from the rest of the society’. Yet we don’t see many people condemning these hearing people for these biases while many Deaf people are judged harshly for their opinions. Are we seeing double standards here? I think so.
The deep division between the subgroups reflects the contrasting core values of deafness. For the oral deaf and users of c.i. people, being able to use spoken English is of utter importance, reflecting the value of the hearing society. For the Deaf Community, it’s totally the opposite as the deafness trait is the most cherished culture for the majority of Deaf people. To these people, their cultural mores are valid.
Some little people, previously called dwarves though the old term now considered politically incorrect, proudly announce to the tall people that short trait is treasured as it’s not consider defective. They frown on medical treatments to artificially lengthening the stunted limbs, giving the little people a boost with their height. Their defiant stance is controversial, however they remain firm.
Again I do see double standards here. I do need to think more about this, but more tolerance from the mainstream society is apparently given to these little people for their refusal to accept medical pathologicalization of their short height. Less tolerance is shown to Deaf people proud to be deaf and their refusal to accept current medical treatments. They are criticized frequently, with people declaring this is the parents’ decisions which are to be respected. I happen to share that belief, but it doesn’t mean that I expect everybody to feel this way. Certainly I have a good number of friends who are completely against c.i. and they have the right to feel this way. Even though I do have many friends who wear cochlear implants, I have no problem accepting those friends who disapprove these devices, as long as they don’t reject people. After all, we live in America where people are given the freedom of speech and individualism.
Amish people denounce the use of electricity and withdraw their children from school after 8th grade. Many of us find their culture too restrictive, but they are content with this lifestyle. Again their values are mostly tolerated by the mainstreamed society. They are allowed to maintain this lifestyle due to their strong religious beliefs, which they are afforded to by our Bill of Rights. America is so diverse.
Women have the reproductive rights of their own bodies. Consequentially they have the right to undergo abortions to remove the live fetuses. However, this doesn’t stop the abortion foes from standing outside the abortion clinics with signs and banner, protesting the reproductive rights of these women afforded by the decision of the Supreme Court. Yet Deaf people are criticized for promoting ASL outside the AGBell conferences. Double Standards?
In America, we have a great diversity of people and Deaf Community is no exception. However, more intolerance for the values of Deaf people, their language ASL, and their culture are exhibited while there are better acceptance for the other groups’ values.
Seeds for thoughts
The subject is closed
I stood back, struck with amazement and sadness at the furor, hurt, and anger within the Deaf Community. Are we so different from each other that we truly cannot understand each other and come to full acceptance of everybody?
First of all, I do not want to see anyone hurt, nor do I want anyone fired from their job. I was aghast when I heard about that. I am glad to see the cooling off period and hope we can have a harmonious discourse without the bashing and negativity. Despite our different opinions, mutual respect must be practiced by all parties.
Some people feel because I revealed about the strong themes of Deafhood within the DBC, I am against DBC, wanting to destroy this organization. Actually, no. Speaking the truth doesn’t necessarily hurt the organization, but empowers the Deaf Community to know where the organization fully stands so better informed decisions can be made by Deaf people. This way, both the organization and the Deaf Community are further strengthened.
If people recollect, I’ve always praised the amazing success of the DBC conference, considering that DBC is less than one year old. Many Deaf people reasonate with DBC’s themes so as far as I am concerned, it’s on the right track. I never dispute that.
I want to stress this: If DBC wants to practice Bilingualism and Deafhood with its DBC participants comfortable with these themes, then they should go ahead. Some people may disagree, but we cannot please everybody. It’s impossible to meet the needs of all D/deaf people. As far as I am concerned, DBC met successfully the needs of many Deaf people who were oppressed and harmed by the oralism system. It’s basically a group for oral survivors, too. These people need to be heard and acknowledged by the world. Where is any forum that these oral survivors can meet to share their painful experiences and reiterate the reasons for their strong support for ASL with deaf babies and children? So far, there has been none, so this is sorely overdue. The current parents need to be aware of this dark legacy the ABGell and oral education system are too anxious to bury. Believe me, this dark chapter should be exposed to the light, so the Deaf people can heal, hearing parents be fully informed, and hopefully the oral education system will be forced to be held accountable. This dark legacy cannot continue to be hidden. Where is the justice for the oral education survivors? Kudos to DBC for being there for the oral survivors!
Also if some Deaf people are against cochlear implants, AVT, and/or oralism, they are certainly entitled to their beliefs. We have many people within the AGBell system who are against ASL and feel Deaf Community is ‘isolated from the rest of the society’. Yet we don’t see many people condemning these hearing people for these biases while many Deaf people are judged harshly for their opinions. Are we seeing double standards here? I think so.
The deep division between the subgroups reflects the contrasting core values of deafness. For the oral deaf and users of c.i. people, being able to use spoken English is of utter importance, reflecting the value of the hearing society. For the Deaf Community, it’s totally the opposite as the deafness trait is the most cherished culture for the majority of Deaf people. To these people, their cultural mores are valid.
Some little people, previously called dwarves though the old term now considered politically incorrect, proudly announce to the tall people that short trait is treasured as it’s not consider defective. They frown on medical treatments to artificially lengthening the stunted limbs, giving the little people a boost with their height. Their defiant stance is controversial, however they remain firm.
Again I do see double standards here. I do need to think more about this, but more tolerance from the mainstream society is apparently given to these little people for their refusal to accept medical pathologicalization of their short height. Less tolerance is shown to Deaf people proud to be deaf and their refusal to accept current medical treatments. They are criticized frequently, with people declaring this is the parents’ decisions which are to be respected. I happen to share that belief, but it doesn’t mean that I expect everybody to feel this way. Certainly I have a good number of friends who are completely against c.i. and they have the right to feel this way. Even though I do have many friends who wear cochlear implants, I have no problem accepting those friends who disapprove these devices, as long as they don’t reject people. After all, we live in America where people are given the freedom of speech and individualism.
Amish people denounce the use of electricity and withdraw their children from school after 8th grade. Many of us find their culture too restrictive, but they are content with this lifestyle. Again their values are mostly tolerated by the mainstreamed society. They are allowed to maintain this lifestyle due to their strong religious beliefs, which they are afforded to by our Bill of Rights. America is so diverse.
Women have the reproductive rights of their own bodies. Consequentially they have the right to undergo abortions to remove the live fetuses. However, this doesn’t stop the abortion foes from standing outside the abortion clinics with signs and banner, protesting the reproductive rights of these women afforded by the decision of the Supreme Court. Yet Deaf people are criticized for promoting ASL outside the AGBell conferences. Double Standards?
In America, we have a great diversity of people and Deaf Community is no exception. However, more intolerance for the values of Deaf people, their language ASL, and their culture are exhibited while there are better acceptance for the other groups’ values.
Seeds for thoughts
The subject is closed
July 16th, 2008 at 11:27 am
Do you say all this because you find yourself too connected to the one big naysayer who wants to damage everyone in his path? Are you are backing down now to cover your tracks? Or have you finally seen the big picture and the true light? I hope it is the last one.
July 16th, 2008 at 11:29 am
MZ, I am heartly with you but how can I tell you that deaf babies developed brain stimulation and communication in English. I rather choose use Total Communication as you know other some International school for deaf use that TC methods help development but they said failed system ways? Well, I have see many deaf teachers use ASL and bilingual communication and drove out many speech therapists and audiologists from schools for the deaf. Hearing teachers were not welcomed unless they accepted and used ASL. ASL linguists have had a most damaging impact on education for the deaf. That’s why today still unsolved ways. Your’s for a better world?
July 16th, 2008 at 11:33 am
On the contrary, Sarah. This has always been my beliefs from the beginning. I am not backing down at all. I am reaffirming the rights of Deaf people to their opinions, whether we agree or not. I have always seen the big picture and for me, it’s the right of Deaf people to speak freely regardless whether their opinions are popular or not.
What Barry said is true as it’s also not just my experience, but also Deaf Pundit, Amy Cohen Efron, Anne Marie Baer, and Dianrez. I don’t see the truth damaging. How can truth hurts? It’s the lack of transparency that hurts.
As long as people respect each other and their beliefs, I have no beef about this.
July 16th, 2008 at 11:35 am
Who can speak and signs,
Hearing people have different educational systems. There are magnet schools, bilingual schools, academic track schools, and also vocational schools.
It would make sense that there would be a variety of educational programs for the deaf babies and children. Why do all the educational systems for the deaf be expected to conform to one uniform standard when there is a tremendous diversity in the hearing schools. What do you think?
July 16th, 2008 at 11:42 am
Okay Mishkazena,
It seems you really don’t understand what your friend Barry has done. Everything you said above in your blog seems irrevelent now. You don’t mean anything if you support a person who would stoop so low as to set up a whole website dedicated to the deflamation of DBC and jeopardize people’s jobs all for the sake of some personal anger that he has. I see it has infested you too.
July 16th, 2008 at 11:46 am
MZ,
Yes, They choose it so we cannot stop them that America ways. I know it will be painful everyone feels that ways. Let move on learned things better ways.
July 16th, 2008 at 11:47 am
Of course, there needs to be a diverse of school systems, no one size fits all.
But I still have a problem with DBC being “deafhoodish”. Think about this, DBC goes on a conference empowering deaf people, fine, but can the hearing parents even understand them? Not only their beliefs, but is their ASL being translated for the hearing parents to hear? I don’t know, I’m just having trouble with it.
But, nayway, good post!
July 16th, 2008 at 11:48 am
I hope this will settle down very soon. Been thinking about everyone here and I am concerned. The Deaf Community is extremely small in compare to the hearing world. Everyone knows each other here. It’s pretty scary. I was raised in my large hearing family who don’t sign, I have always considered the Deaf community is my family — that comes first. It is okay to disagree or agree because it is an health learning experience. It is NOT okay to devalue the opinions of others. I love you all no matter what. Diane
July 16th, 2008 at 11:50 am
Sarah, I have already stated that I don’t approve the jeoparizing of people’s jobs at all. That may be one of the reasons why some Deaf people are reluctant to come forward and express their opinions about the cochlear implants. If so, this is very unfortunate as many Deaf people do work in the educational system. It’s also unfair for these Deaf people because how can they be open about their personal beliefs? I strongly believe that as long as Deaf people keep their personal values outside of their jobs, they are entitled to speak openly their stance regarding the controversial cochlear implants.
However, I will not deny that Deafhood is a strong component of DBC. Why should I when so many Deafhood themes have been discussed in the group? Why should I when their radical Deaf views were the reason why some of us resigned and others were booted out.
If you see the exposure of Deafhood as a defamation of DBC, then I am at a loss. For one thing, why is Deafhood a negative thing? I don’t see it degrading. We all have our own versions of Deafhood. Some people share my version of Deafhood while others have different versions of Deafhood.
Please tell me how Deafhood can be a defamation?
July 16th, 2008 at 11:52 am
Oh and on your comment about schools. Do you realize that there is such a low number of Deaf individuals when compared to the overall population that in order to do all of the things you propose, would leave class sizes of like-peers to a minimal level. That means we go back to the isolation that so many Deaf people have gone through for the past 100 years in mainstream schools.
TC is not a language. It is a coded system. The research is out there showing that ASL has huge benefits on cognitive thinking and upon speech acquisition for those that have the ability in speech.
There are a lot of Deaf Experts in the field of linguistics and Deaf Education. Wouldn’t it be nice if the government would start listening to their advice.
July 16th, 2008 at 11:55 am
Brian, I understand. However, it appears many DBC participants are comfortable with both themes.
Sarah, oh I am a firm believer on the benefits of ASL. It’s my regret that it had been so maligned and misunderstood for many years.
July 16th, 2008 at 11:57 am
HI MZ,
perfect explained! actually we all “family” with different background experience. I grew up with many learning methods.
Let me tell you, I experienced so much rejects in my early years due of being different from both Deaf and Hearing world but I gave them the credits why? they taught me to become stronger! My heart and mind now forever “iron” I have re-birth myself a whole new Gary. I am proud who I am today! if they don’t accept me, their problems not mine! I am now forever settled no matter if I do not have many friends. I am a Solo and very happy with my good spiritural! even though some of my close friends didn’t invited me to their wedding ceremony LOL!!! or vacation or others events, they tell me “Gary, I am sorry that you are not invite blah blah… do you know what I said to them “Ohhhh don’t be sorry for me!!! save your energy! I am not hurting at all!” I smiled Really if not for my horrific experienced being reject from the early 1970-1995 then I could feeling hurt by today but no! I do not feel hurt at all! I swear to God!!! take my words! even well known bloggers, vloogers tried their hard to hurt my feeling or insulted..I laughed at them. my heart right now is full of joy!!! happy! love! I do not care if they are famous, rich or poor, they are nothing to me! really serious! why? they are not God! they don’t own me! they are just one of a human beings… no big deal!
MZ, I tell you, count on me! I am your friend at all costs! ok have a great summer!
hugs
Gary
July 16th, 2008 at 12:01 pm
I did not say that Deafhood was defaming DBC. What I say is that it appears Barry’s work and your support of him is a malice intent to defame DBC. You took my words and twisted them.
I see Deafhood as very important to the empowerment of Deaf people. I think it should be within every Deaf organization. Who can agrue that Deaf people should be proud of who they are and know themselves.
Who cares if you resigned DBC or someone was booted out, like you say. The point is that you and the others started this mudslinging contest and now you are trying to work your way out of it. You are trying to act like the innocent one but in reality you continue to fuel the fire.
Get honest…get transparent…get some integrity.
July 16th, 2008 at 12:04 pm
Hmmm… you see Mishkzena… no matter how we try to explan our actions and our reasons there will always be people who will like what you have to say and dislike what you have to say. Your message has been stellar from the beginning to the end. You did not shift to the right or the left or forward or backwards. But yet, people twisted your words like they twisted mine because the hard truth hurts. Unfortunately we all read and translate words differently because we all have different life experiences therefore we apply our interpretation in so many different and unique ways.
Part of the problem we are witnessing today is panic mode deaf communities are in right now. They felt as if their language and culture are threatened. We all live in different parts of this world. We are not clanish people whereas we live together and see eachother on daily basis as in a real community of neighbors. Instead we live in many different places scattered through out the world and yet we call it a deaf community. When we get together we feel the frictions because we do not really know each other well enough to develop rapports with each other. What happened in deafread is a living proof of why we’re constantly arguing ourselves to death. Our leaders think they are above others and act accordingly. They think they are not accountable to deaf people in general because they are not living in one neighborhood community.
It reminds me of fantasty island. We have a fantasty island of our own whereas everybody’s deaf and we all use ASL. It’s what we all dare to dream about but in reality it is just not possible so we’re fuming our frustrations at each other. While we are at it we’re shedding bad examples for the world to witness. Not that I think we should shut up and behave but it is a progress we have to go through and unfortunately internet is a public forum for the world to watch and witness. It is a learning experience for each of us.
Regardless of the outcome, we all belong to human being race. We’re human beings first before we are deaf. Until we realize this important fact then perhape we’ll finally have discovered our harmony and peace. To identify ourselves as deaf first before anything else is why we’re arguing ourselves to death.
My challenge to everybody… look at me as a human being before you look at me as a deaf person. I will look at everybody the same way. When we all agree to do the same thing then we will realize what’s more important here. And build from there, as in foundation. Without it we will always argue. It’s a simple truth.
Barry
July 16th, 2008 at 12:06 pm
Sarah, I am sorry you felt I was twisting your words as that was never my intention.
Actually if you think I am trying to work my way out of it, then you have misunderstood my intention from the beginning. I suggest you reread my posts and my comments elsewhere.
All I asked is full transparency. That has been my message from the beginning. I am sorry you see seeking full transparency ‘mud-slinging’. For some reason, I don’t see why some people consider the truth ‘mud-slinging’. I am not sure what to make out of this, but it seems some people think airing out the fact DBC is practicing Deafhood is ‘mud-slinging’. If my interpretation is correct, then my next question is why would acknowledging the Deafhood component of DBC considered ‘mud-slinging’? It doesn’t make sense to me as I don’t see anything negative about the Deafhood aspect…. as long as Deaf people are happy with it. Unless some people feels Deafhood shouldn’t be acknowledged openly. Why not? Aren’t they entitled to their beliefs?
How is this continuing to add fuel to the fire? I am completely lost here.
I am trying to understand this, Sarah. Please enlighten me.
July 16th, 2008 at 12:16 pm
MZ,
You do not have a leg to stand on. Claiming that you are for “full transparency” is not appropriate. It’s a dodge.
The DBC leaders have done NOTHING wrong.
July 16th, 2008 at 12:19 pm
transparency is the enemy of corruption.
MZ, you’re on the right track.
July 16th, 2008 at 12:22 pm
I don’t see anythiing wrong what you said.
FH - If you don;t understand her statements then ask her questions and she is willoing to explain you more clearly.
July 16th, 2008 at 12:23 pm
Actually I stand behind my words. All the former DBC members spoke the truth.
The Deaf Community deserves the full truth. DBC hiding the Deafhood part is not helping the Deaf Community.
If you feel it’s ok for DBC to hide the truth, then I don’t know what to say to you. There are many signs of Deafhood themes if one look at all the blogs/vlogs, the comments left by DBC leaders, the newspaper interview, the media release, and so forth.
In the hearing world, we are allowed to discuss things openly without the fear of retaliation. I see that it’s not accepted in the Deaf Community. It’s sad to see oppression being encouraged and people who are outspoken attacked.
Think about this. For too long, there were a severe lack of transparency at Gallaudet. People kept quiet because they don’t feel free to be outspoken. What happened? Things kept getting worse and worse.. leading to a revolt by the Gallaudet Community.
A healthy community permits constructive and open dialogue among the members. If we are not allowed, then this community is dysfunctional and oppressive. Where is the empowerment of Deaf people?
July 16th, 2008 at 12:24 pm
“While use of ASL set the Deaf person apart from the majority English- speaking culture, it also belongs to Deaf people and allows them to take advantage of their capabilities as normal language.
Clinical- pathological: definitions of the deaf community which accept as given that behaviour and values of the hearing majority (be taken) as the “norm”, and then focus(es) on how people deviate from this ‘norm’.
Cultural: definitions which focus on the common language, shared experiences etc. which characterize a particular group of people, who in addition, in the case, ‘happen to deaf’. It is a view which conceives of the deaf community as a separate cultural group with ‘its own values and language’ which should be accepted as such.”
Title- Constructing Deafness by Susan Gregory
July 16th, 2008 at 12:26 pm
MZ (and Barry) -
Forget it… People like Sarah and FH are not going to see two sides of everything, so I suggest you stop wasting your breath trying to explain yourself. The funny thing is that you have explained yourself so many times that is it boring!
Sorry! But you know what I mean? You must have done it 20 or 30 times and I’m sick of these people “not” getting it! They are not even trying.
You did your part and we are grateful and glad things came out in the open! The more open things are, the better we understand things, the less in-fighting there is. Simple, right?
July 16th, 2008 at 12:29 pm
I AM DEAF AND CEREBRAL PALSY AND I am 45 yrs old. This is Julie Lorraine Jackson
July 16th, 2008 at 12:30 pm
Full transparency as full document. She simply requested the full transparency from DBC. She simply wanted to confirm the facts.
Same concept as Untied States and Bush Administration requested the full transparency from Iraq about World Mass Destruction. Iraq refused to provide the full transparency to US. That’s why we went to WAR with Iraq and see if there was World Mass De4struction. But there was NO WMD because Iraq tricked us.
July 16th, 2008 at 12:40 pm
MZ,
The whole thing about the DBC and Deafhood has been blown totally out of proportion, and you have actually libeled the DBC on comment #135 of your previous post.
There is nothing wrong with the a natural overlap occurring between DBC events and Deafhood. Every individual has their own opinions, and they will naturally share those.
For your information, there are leaders involved with DBC who are not in complete agreement with all the issues in Deafhood.
What you are doing is trying to cover up your mistakes in following Barry and trying to cover your tracks by introducing a red herring. The DBC is not a public agency is there is no problem with transparency.
YOU, MishkaZena, are the person who is attempting to impose a double standard. ALL non-profit groups are entitled to choose their leaders according to how the founder’s choice. That’s NORMAL. Take a look at other non-profit groups. They are entitled to have private leadership discussions for various reasons.
Look at other non-profit groups, and do not attempt to impose a double standard on the DBC.
Enough is enough.
July 16th, 2008 at 12:42 pm
OK-at the risk of of being called names by you Elizabeth-because I said I was leaveing the blogspear- I agree with Sarah.
You and the others seemed to NOT get the total self-centeredness of this “Barry”. And, from alot of people point-of-views, I am sorry to say, you have lost a lot of creditability.
This is truely a sad thing for me to say, beacuse you and I go back and were-soldiers-in arms (remember UFG Protest?).
Your loyalty to this “Dr.” has blinded you to the truth.
You have issues with DBC? Fine. There is a way to address them. NOt by going about the way this very bitter and angrey man has done it.
Raphael J. St. Johns, C-87, G-00
July 16th, 2008 at 12:42 pm
Hi Mishka Zena -
This is my first comment on your blog.
You know, you were one of a few bloggers that I looked up to.
I am saddened by your word choice, ‘cult’.
After I looked up the definition on Internet and found them.
_________________________
Definitions of cult on the Web:
* followers of an exclusive system of religious beliefs and practices
* fad: an interest followed with exaggerated zeal; “he always follows the latest fads”; “it was all the rage that season”
* followers of an unorthodox, extremist, or false religion or sect who often live outside of conventional society under the direction of a charismatic leader
* a religion or sect that is generally considered to be unorthodox, extremist, or false; “it was a satanic cult”
* a system of religious beliefs and rituals; “devoted to the cultus of the Blessed Virgin”
________________________
I found the word ‘cult’ too offensive for you to call it on DBC core members and even to people including me who share same belief as those core members. Do you realize that? I am afraid that it is not acceptable.
I feel that you need to re-consider what you had said all along to those DBC core members AND us people - unless you had meant it. Sorry I waste my time.
Please choose your words more carefully. I appreciate it.
By the way, it would be a nice change if you’d vlog once a while instead of blog every time.
Thank you kindly,
Kathryn
July 16th, 2008 at 12:49 pm
Brian, you are right. I’m wasting my time here. I’m getting more support from DeafVide.tv, many of who called and emailed us directly to learn the truth.
I, for one never resorted to the term ‘cult’ in any of my blogs, vlogs or comments and yet I was never complimented for it. We just don’t get credit for all the good things we say or do. They are only looking for negative words… a reflection of linear thinkers. I rest my case.
July 16th, 2008 at 12:49 pm
FH,
You have to remember blog readers (some of DBC supporters) are watching your comments closely. Mishka SIMPLY requested the full document with facts. If you don’t want DBC to provide the documents then how can you convict us to believe in DBC’s philosophy???
If you want DBC to have a better reputation and more forthrightness. Then simply provide her full document with facts. You and DBC may prove her wrong, who knows.
July 16th, 2008 at 12:52 pm
MZ,
You were right that it’s not ok to hide the truth. Yes, truth hurts and everything got heated up. I had been rejected, bashed and inulted by some family members and friends after they found the truth from me about my actions. After moving 2000 miles away from them, we slowly mended our relationship via emails and text messages. Forgiveness is important.
July 16th, 2008 at 12:56 pm
I still stand behind my words. I said being in the core member group felt like a strong radical groupthink to me. I am not the only DBC core member to feel this way. I think almost all felt the same way. Our differences weren’t acknowledged and respected. Our moderate views weren’t accepted, either.
I’ve done some serious thinking and checking the Deafhood workshops. I realized one thing.. the radical Deaf version I and others were exposed to the inner core group was very different from the version of Deafhood workshops shared with the public.
Maybe I use the wrong word? To me, the word strong groupthink means when all the core members are expected to conform strictly to only one groupthink, despite of individual member’s beliefs. Though we respect their beliefs, we don’t subscribe to their radical Deaf version. However, they don’t respect our moderate deaf version and tried to impose their radical Deaf values on us, against our will repeatedly. So, in order for us to retain our ,pderate deaf views, I and another person resigned. The other four were ejected, again all because they refused to conform to the DBC leaders’ strong views against oralism, cochlear implants, hearing people as oppressors, colonialists, cochlear implant users and oral deaf people w/o sign language not accepting their deafhood, and rejection of deaf people who don’t know ASL, etc.
If it’s a wrong term, then please tell me what the correct term would be. I do make mistakes, as I am human, too and don’t claim to be perfect.
I am not refering to the DBC members nor the DBC participants. They are fine. Please don’t misunderstood me on this.
Strong beliefs are fine. Forcing other people to conform to different beliefs that they are not comfortable is not ok. We are talking about two different things.
It’s only the inner DBC core members. They all received intensive training on their radical Deaf views, whether they want it or not. I hope this clarifies somewhat.
It’s not a libel if it’s the truth. You can ask other DBC core members what their experiences were like. I believe two weren’t subjected to this, but the others were.
It doesn’t matter if all the core members don’t agree about the Deafhood being practiced within DBC. There are still a lot of themes in the public. If they do not want Deafhood, then they shouldn’t be speaking about Deafhood within the core group AND the public. The conflicting messages confuse many people.
July 16th, 2008 at 12:58 pm
Rogue, you made a good point. Elizabeth MishkaZena became obsessed over the full transparency while she won’t move on.
I really want to thank Aidan who took a stand to speak loudly about Amy who is against cochlear implants.(non-attacking) She saved our readers feebleminds.
July 16th, 2008 at 12:58 pm
MZ,
Well done with your explaining with your critical thinking. Keep it up.
I want to remind you that moral value and the living of culture is very different. Moral value is based on what is sin or not. Abortion is very anti-moral value thing. Amish, language, deafhood, and whatever aren’t even on same page with moral value’s world.
If you say abortion is alright and we should allow people killing each other for their own gains. Does it make sense? No way! Isn’t that picture alike to Amish’ family? No! Please don’t compare those two worlds. I don’t like to see people mixing moral value and culture because they are one who destorys the moral value standards. That’s what is happening in our country, American is dying like Empire Rome in past. Empire Romans forgot what it was like to have strong moral value and that led them to fall of Empire Rome.
Thanks,
Eric
July 16th, 2008 at 12:59 pm
Remember DBC supporters donated their money and supported DBC organization. DBC supporters have a entitled to know since Money is theirs, not DBC’s.
If I wanted to support DBC then I rather to have full document before I donate the money. I WOULD not donate the money to any organization without providing the full document.
July 16th, 2008 at 1:06 pm
I would like to add to this, if DBC wants to talk about bilingualism and deafhood, that is one thing, but if they want to talk about bilngualism and deaf babies, that is a whole other story.
If DBC is all about bilingualsim and deafhood, then some people are absolutely right when they say that its leaders did nothing wrong. The target market of deafhood and bilingualism is naturally the deaf community and what happened in milwaukee may suit that perfectly.
But, it was my understanding that DBC’s mission was to expose bilingualism to deaf babies. Now when you think about it, one usually does not need to convince deaf parents of deaf babies of this, therefore that means its target market are the hearing parents of deaf babies.
Now most hearing parents of deaf babies have no clue about deafness when the baby is born, they are often referred to AG Bell but doctors, audiologists, etc. Why is that, because AG Bell implemented their marketing strategy to make themselves known to these doctors, audiologolists and the like.
What does that mean? the quickest way to obtain access to these hearing parents of deaf children would be to ally with AG Bell, regardless of whether or not, you support them 100% or not.
Instead DBC went against AG Bell, staged rallies outside of their conferences, etc. How is this suppose to give us access to these hearing parents of deaf children? Seeing those actions probably scare these hearing parents of deaf children more than anything else, simply because these hearing parents do not understand the deaf culture and they are going to think of the mob mentality so they certainly are not going to approach a mob.
Don’t you think it would have been much easier if DBC actually had a booth inside of AG Bell?
In order to do that, that means they have to be nuetral on all other communication modes, including CI/AVT. But DBC’s leader do not do that, they have publicly spoken out against CIs, they have publicly spoken out against oralism. That in itself defeats the whole purpose of its own mission in reaching out to hearing parents of deaf babies to explain bilingualism, which means ASL AND English. What gives us the right to say that the English aspect can only be written and not spoken? Its not our place to decide that, its the parents decision on whether or not they want the child to use written and/or spoken english.
People called them out on that and asked them to come clean, they didn’t, so they blew the whistle and came forth with the evidence.
July 16th, 2008 at 1:06 pm
LEAVE BARRY alone! He spoke out and now he is being castrated.
Barry, MZ, Amy, Dianrez, Deaf Pundit, Anne Marie, Aidan, Ben: you are my heroes.
You give me HOPE for our cherished Deaf community.
July 16th, 2008 at 1:08 pm
One of the biggest differences between ASL and verbal English is something that I find very interesting. ASL is a much more emotional language than English. Sometimes its biggest strength can also be its biggest weakness. Hearing people are taught to contain their emotions. Get facts to back things up. Not be over dramatic. When arguments occur, we are taught to calm down and discuss things rationally. I don’t see this with ASL. Emotions are honored with ASL, but this also means that people are not as used to keeping a lesh on them. Explosions happen and everyone goes nuts. Many people get insulted and hurt. Then everyone needs to take the time to heal the wounds and calm the anger.
This can be very intimidating for hearing parents who are just venturing into Deaf Culture. I wouldn’t be surprised if part of the reason hearing parents don’t choose to incorporate ASL is because of how overwhelmed they feel about the whole cultural aspects of ASL.
Maybe I need to blog about this. I’ll think about it.
July 16th, 2008 at 1:08 pm
I’m with amazement and sadness, too.
In my opinion, I think DBC did a great job.
July 16th, 2008 at 1:10 pm
MZ,
It is NOT the truth, what you are saying. It is a shameless and petty smear on your part.
Shame on you for distorting the issues and acting so destructively toward the Deaf community.
On separate issue, the fact that you swallowed Barry’s lies says enough. You have no credibility. The fact that you cooperated with Barry is a total disgrace. Did you read Dr. DonG’s statement in his PDF file on his blog? Read it carefully.
It’s time for you to resign from Deaf Read and also publish a retraction.
July 16th, 2008 at 1:15 pm
Apparently to me, I assumed DBC organization seems focus on “attacking” mode on AGB organization than represent bilngualism, deaf babies and Deafhood issues. Honestly, I do not like the DBC’s letter to AGB which posted yesturday. DBC letter doesn’t sound like all about bilngualism, deaf babies and Deafhood issues.
I hope one of DBC supporter tells me that I am totally wrong.
July 16th, 2008 at 1:17 pm
Deb Ann,
DBC did a wonderful job, too.
FH, I still speak of the truth. Whether you believe me or not is entirely up to you. I don’t swallow Barry’s “lies”. Do you know why? What he described what he went through is exactly what I and other former DBC core members left.
Why don’t you forget all about what Barry says? Just concentrate on what I, Anne Marie, Amy, and Dianrez says? Why don’t you ask Deaf Pundit when she returns from Europe?
If you don’t like what you hear, then it’s your prerogative. If you feel truth is an attack of Deaf Community, then I don’t see how as I repeatedly stated that many Deaf people love the philosophy of Deafhood and how I support the Deaf empowerment. It’s that we all have our own version of Deafhood, consequentially all of our versions are not the same.
Why should I back off from the truth as I see it?
July 16th, 2008 at 1:19 pm
“Everyone has a right – indeed, a duty – to disagree, to dissent, to rise up against an affront, an injustice or an injury.
But for the fragile freedom of speech to survive, we must carry out that task with a firm attachment to fairness, principle and tolerance. When we give in to hostility, self-righteousness and vengefulness, we eventually find ourselves snapping and snarling at a shrinking number of inhabitants of the public square.
Giving in to the speech mob means that discourse is diverted from the real issues to a sideshow on who is punished for uttering the “wrong” ideas or words. Dissent is dead if it can be hounded out of the marketplace so effortlessly. Democracy is no match for demagoguery if good people won’t stand up to mob rule.
We must get past the idea that expression has no value unless it mirrors our own. We must learn to recognize ourselves not just in the faces but in the voices of others. We must find a way to see our own rights reflected in other people’s freedom.”
http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/commentary.aspx?id=14873
July 16th, 2008 at 1:20 pm
An analogy that might clarify this:
Suppose AGBell were pushing an agenda of “make sure oral/aural training is a part of Deaf education for all children” (for now, disregard that they did more than that; they tried to exclude ASL too.)
And suppose its leaders were actually on a covert campaign to convince doctors and parents that Deaf people were incapable of decision making and that it was better to leave them out of ALL participation.
There are those of us who feel strongly that all Deaf children need a balance of oral/aural training and ASL…and would contribute to the foundation that supports its inclusion. Would we still contribute if we knew about the covert side?
MZ is advocating transparency, which means we all understand everything that goes on with DBC, its leaders, and its motives.
Everything.
Then, with that knowledge, we can decide to support it or not.
July 16th, 2008 at 1:20 pm
well, MZ…welcome back! just be urself i still love u no matter what
\../,
July 16th, 2008 at 1:20 pm
I’m saying that you need to rethink your views, because they are very wrong, and very destructive.
You yourself are not being fully forthcoming about your situation in giving your readers information about you that would allow them to judge whether your are being credible or not.
You are being hypocritical and YOU are the person who is the problem, not the DBC.
The DBC leaders have done NOTHING wrong!
July 16th, 2008 at 1:23 pm
Dianrez,
You needed to go to Milwaukee to be able to make comments like that. Everything was very open.
The DBC leaders’ influence depends on being “bottom up.” The DBC leaders are not stupid. They realize that they cannot push a “top down” agenda that might conflict with the community’s wishes and goals.
July 16th, 2008 at 1:28 pm
FH,
I don’t care about Barry Sewell. He is out of picture from me. It is all about full document with facts from DBC organization.
You know that I think Mishka seems really wanted to support DBC organization if DBC provided the full documents. That’s very simple thing. DBC is not FRATERNITY or SORORITY organization like to pledged to keep the secrets.
July 16th, 2008 at 1:36 pm
And for all of you out there who think that I am in the minority-think again!
I leave you with :
“MZ –
You guys had your concerns, and they were legitimate in terms of you were concerned about procedures. I have no problem with that, and I think others didn’t too. You, and Amy and A-M expressed them in a responsible, concerned manner. However, Barry Sewell didn’t. He showed hypocrisy in his every action regarding the DBC thing, and he has shown a pattern of behavior (I hope you read the file) that shows he comes into something and poisons it with his touch every time. This is what I am standing against. Not you, not Amy, A-M or Diane, but him and his actions. He poured gasoline over DBC, lit the match, and then stood back to watch the bonfire, and occasionally came back in to fuel the flames. He did this out of his own personal grievances, and used other people as his pawns to achieve his goal.”
Dr. DonG’s Deafhood.
Raphael J. St. Johns, C-87, G-00
July 16th, 2008 at 1:43 pm
Rogue,
MZ is making false charges. There is no problem with transparency. The DBC is being very open and has all the important things on the table.
Look at other private non-profit agencies. They all need to have some confidential meetings to discuss sensitive information, etc. The DBC has done nothing wrong.
July 16th, 2008 at 2:02 pm
All of you could see WHY I have been similarily victimized by the smear campaign and disinformation back last ten years ago at Gallaudet University.
I just stepped in and called for an investigation into the SBG adminstration’s spending practices since one of the SBG employees wrote the open letter in the Blue and Bluff student newspaper to express hir own concern why this SBG adminstration spent on plane tickets for the SBG president’s own father, hired hir own father to build the wooden bookcase cost about $1,000 and other questionable spending priorities.
There were hundreds of VAX (old Gally email system) replies and discussions. I had to step in and called for an investigation to determine whether the SBG adminstration had been guilty or not guilty. I was a student represenative for “Never Too Late” student organizations for older and non-traditional students.
I was suddenly attacked all the corners from individuals and supporters affilated with the SBG adminstration via VAX replies and whisper campaigns with disinformation and false rumors against me.
I fought back pretty hard which I was kinda overboard to preserve my own reptuation. I was once courted by the very same SBG adminstration’s re-election campaign and SBG people which I was a respectable voice in many ways.
I was totally shocked how and what some people resorted to some kind of tactics to smear and attempt to silence me from going forward with the investigation thru the Student Congress.
I had no agenda or motive to do this kind of investigation. I done it to get things done before student kept yakked about the ongoing SBG adminstration’s questionable finanical spendings, etc.
You know about many places always accompany their own patrons or clients if they express any disatisfication and reply with courtesy and thanks. That is called “customer service” or “customer satisfication”.
I do embrace the concept of “Deafhood” to inspire and motivate deaf people to have high expectation about themselves without crutching on technology to re-define themselves as someone else and deny hir own identity.
The list of pathological and cultural parallel about audism within our society also came from several Gallaudet courses to take a deep insight into our existence as deaf people.
Any 501-c non-profit organizations are legally required to provide finanical sheet reports to its members and donors.
I have no ax to grind against the DBC people. I somewhat question the re-visit of history repeat itself with some kind of tactics to intimidate and steamroll the skeptical ones.
The ardent critics are also at fault for resorting to ugly labels like “deaf cults” and “Kappa Gamma” and “PKZ” and “Deaf Miltancy”
Hopefully will see the healing phase for every of us to get together to work out and move on.
Robert L. Mason (RLM)
RLMDEAF blog
July 16th, 2008 at 2:05 pm
FH,
Recently, I just saw Jack’s eyes vlog about DBC from DeafTV. I am fan of Jack’s eyes because of his sense of humor. However, He explained details what was going on with DBC convention and organization itself. If DBC organization is overwhelming and need some helps then let Mishka and DBC supporters know what is going on. I believe they may join DBC and help the organization.
I know it was very hard to write the letter or document. DBC do not want make themselves looks idiot. Don’t worry about AGB or any kind of hecklers/ bullies. Let someone who have EXCELLENT English background and may interest to join DBC. This person may create DBC’s letter and document looks more professional!
If I was member of DBC organization. I would ignore AGB and focus bilingualism, deaf babies and Deafhood issues. Don’t let AGB thinks DBC wasting their time and effort to fight with them. Karma may turn in AGB someday in the future.
Same thing as full document.
July 16th, 2008 at 2:15 pm
Folks,
It is time for me to speak up. I have gone to the DBC Milwaukee convention and it has been an excellent experience. I have seen greater focus on bilingualism…, and yes, I have seen elements of Deafhood, which is basically to know your history. But the main focus was on bilingualism from the presenters. I will say no more on this subject until another time when I am able to do so.
Please refrain from personal attacks, on MZ, and other commenters, and address the topic at hand.
There are many perspectives on the whole shebang, right or wrong. Please conduct your discussions in a respectful manner.
Shel
July 16th, 2008 at 2:16 pm
KL,
With all due respect,I disagree with your statement that ASL is an emotional language while English isn’t. “Hearing are taught to contain their emotions.” If this quote which I got from your comment, #35, is true, how do you explain the black on black violence that occur among HEARING people who speak English?
How do you explain the political squabbles in the White House who speak English? Look at the election going on. There is much emotional rhetoric espoused in English by HEARING politicians.
Look at the abortion debates raging amongst HEARING people who are passionate (meaning emotional) about their causes.
Look at the emotional rhetorical bashing among English speaking Hearing people supporters and opponents of the Iraq war.
Look at the 60’s rallying of the Hippie shouting out against Vietnam War. Who were being emotional? Gasp! Hearing who speak English!
You know, the very same description you gave of ASL is the same one tagged on the Spanish, Italian languages by the Anglos, who…guess what?… spoke English.
I rest my case.
Shel.
July 16th, 2008 at 2:22 pm
Hope you all work it out OK by keeping DBC organization stronger.
July 16th, 2008 at 2:23 pm
Response to K.L., #35: I disagree that English is not an emotional language and that hearing people are trained to keep their emotions inside. That’s not true, but it may look that way to someone who is deaf and cannot hear the wealth of information contained in someone’s vocal tone and choice of words. People who speak English do get carried away, agitated, and emotional, but they may convey most of the emotion through their voice than the facial expression. People who use ASL are often viewed as violating hearing cultural norms as to how much facial expression is appropriate and in which situations. We deaf people need *more* facial expression to grasp someone’s affect (emotional state) and it’s normal by our cultural values. I would guess that hearing parents observing deaf people communicating would infer that they’re all angry or emotional because (a) they don’t understand any of the signs, (b) they’re overwhelmed just by the concept of a purely visual communication, and (c) by projection of the implications it may mean for them having a deaf child of their own being “like that.”
MZ, I have seen you mature as a blogger over the past two years and give you props for demanding transparency on part of DBC. Your integrity and honesty are most commendable.
July 16th, 2008 at 2:24 pm
Just checked http://www.deafhood.us and saw that they took the website down. Checked http://www.ellaflashlight.com web site but it’s been taken down too. They realized we’ve caught them red handed and exposed their true motivation for seizing CAD and DBC in order to promote Deafhood Workshops. Who profited from CAD and DBC generousity? Ella and DE did. Now we can see what the truth can do.
Fortunately for us, we’ve gathered numerous evidences and printed hard copies showing Ella’s involvement in all three entities. Unfortunately, sooner or later she will have to answer to deaf community and CAD and NAD.
See what the truth can do for us?
July 16th, 2008 at 2:26 pm
Few days ago both links worked and had contents. I know because I checked. Today these web site are blank. Why? They realize they’ve been caught, red handed.
July 16th, 2008 at 2:28 pm
both websites still there
you forgot the “s” http://www.ellasflashlight.com/
July 16th, 2008 at 2:38 pm
Elizabeth-\\If you continue to not post my postings, then I guess all of your enemies (some of which I defended you) are correct.
It’s really sad-because it’s a reflection on you.
I am feeling very sorry for you.
July 16th, 2008 at 2:41 pm
MZ,
I am glad that you still stand up for the truth. No on should twist the truth. I know you have been trying to explain (again and again) to some commenters what happened. You are very kind to do that. I am behide you because of the simply truth. No hide anything. I appreciate that.
Have a good day FROM me,
Tom
July 16th, 2008 at 2:42 pm
I was away and came here to check briefly. I am unable to follow all the comments.. but would like to comment about ASL being an emotional language.
I am not sure what the commenter mean by it being an emotional language.
A language is just a language. ASL is very expressive, yes, as it incorporates facial expression and body language. But emotional? Emotions come from people, not languages.
Raphael, your comments were in the spam folder.
Everybody, I want to reiterate that I fully support Deaf Community and also DBC. Again I acknowledged that DBC covered Bilingualism extensively. Many people feel Deafhood is also very important as language cannot be separated from culture. Again that’s fine. It would help if DBC covers this in their website so the hearing parents of nonsigning deaf babies and children can understand better these concepts. Deafhood is a very complicated concept and needs to be explored in depth.
July 16th, 2008 at 2:45 pm
Barry, you chose a negative perspective on Ella when it is your view.Stop encouraging to focus on her as a deafhood.
In Spain, they consider about the new term Deafhood, but Ella doesn’t
July 16th, 2008 at 2:45 pm
Excuse me Dr. Hocokan/ Barry Sewell,
Can you please quit stirring things up? This blog is all about Mishka requested full transparency from DBC organization as she done it politely. Just pointing the fingers at anybody over other subject.
If you want to discuss about deafhood and Ella’s documents. Get your own blog please. It is not fair to drag Mishka as human shield. It is your problem to deal with issues with deafhood and Ella. You stated your own vlog from Deaf TV..”Not my problem, it is your problem” attitude . Quit it please.
We need to discuss about full transparency from DBC organization as being discreet and diplomacy ways.
July 16th, 2008 at 2:46 pm
(Stop encouraging us)
July 16th, 2008 at 2:48 pm
# 33 ” Now most hearing parents of deaf babies have no clue about deafness when the baby is born, they are often referred to AG Bell but doctors, audiologists, etc. Why is that, because AG Bell implemented their marketing strategy to make themselves known to these doctors, audiologolists and the like.”
Who faults? Point to NAD did not get action provide to Health Dept or hospital social work, doctors, and audiologists. I warned them many years ago need get workshop all over States. That’s why not enoughed information about birth deaf need by advsiors from mental health dept. I am glad DBC was first organization rally but need fixed up new leader DBC like rewrite get better ways I beleived this start process action send ads and provide service etc is most important keep up the information to hearing parents understand what is deaf about.
July 16th, 2008 at 2:48 pm
Thank you, Raychelle and Shelley, for your comments. I’ve found Achilles’ Heel in some
commenters. What is it? Reading comprehension
problems. MZ is very articulate, but some
commenters still do not understand what
transparency means!
(shaking head sadly)
July 16th, 2008 at 3:03 pm
Good to see Ella’s web site back up. She did a quick work on it and removed deafhood from her entire site. Take a look. It used to contain deafhood contents. I went through google.com and it was not there. Now it is there. Same thing happened to deafhood.us. It is back up now. Interesting. She must be in this room.
July 16th, 2008 at 3:09 pm
Dr. Hocokan/ Barry Sewell,
What are you talking about? Sorry, It doesnt make any sense to me.
July 16th, 2008 at 3:40 pm
The google.com for deafhood.us is
http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:ra8K7Q9jU7MJ:www.deafhood.us/+deafhood.us&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us
The google.com for ellasflashlight.com
http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:uYw8uTfMzpQJ:www.ellasflashlight.com/+ellasflashlight.com&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us
See for your eyes! (Baerry…go back to making your 25 hats…your customers not happy with what your are doing)
July 16th, 2008 at 3:41 pm
I continue to do reseach about Deaf international who have to fight for their right to access national sign language as a primary at schools in their countries because they don’t agree with oralist philosophy.
July 16th, 2008 at 3:51 pm
Everybody,
Please click above on to see Dr DonG’s PDF file.
Go there and click on the link to read the PDF file to read about Barry’s activities.
This is very important.
July 16th, 2008 at 4:04 pm
MZ,
I am confused. You and some readers have stated “If deaf participants are ok with Deafhood and DBC being together, then so be it.”
I have a problem with this because DBC is not for the deaf. It is for the parents. It is for the children of hearing parents. It is not for us, deaf adults. We can be pro active with it as members but it is not for us, to serve us, to speak for us, etc. That is the message they had in their heads and why they went to the convention. That is why they thought the convention was successful. They were thinking Deafhood when they went to DBC convention. That was what Deafhood people were counting on - deaf people going to convention in Deafhood mode. They didn’t go to convention for DBC…to speak to the parents of deaf children, to rally for the parents, etc. No. They rallied for themselves, really. That is Deafhood.
Therein the problem.
I don’t know if they will ever get it. They only see the celebration of themselves and cannot see anything beyond that.
July 16th, 2008 at 4:11 pm
Cy,
I agree with you. However, if this is what they want, then….
July 16th, 2008 at 4:21 pm
Cy, I share your concern.
But I guess deaf people subconsciously view DBC as a part of healing avenue for them and for them to find a closure on their pasts, explaining its appeal for them. Hearing parents… *shrug*.
July 16th, 2008 at 4:33 pm
Kathy, many people told me that I explain the concepts very clearly in ASL and that they understand me better in ASL than in the written mode.
I understand. I really wish I could vlog. Unfortunately I am unable to, much to my deep regret. It’s still my hope some day I’ll be able to vlog. I apologize for my inability to.
July 16th, 2008 at 4:53 pm
Mishkazena,
I am shaking my head!!! You are using double talk. First in other comments in other blogs, you have called DBC a “cult”. Then you say:
“I’ve always praised the amazing success of the DBC conference, considering that DBC is less than one year old. Many Deaf people reasonate with DBC’s themes so as far as I am concerned, it’s on the right track.”
If you are seeking an apology regarding your past involvement in DBC and you are wanting DBC to post their thoughts on Deafhood on their website, then the method in which you, Barry, and a few others have done this despicable. There are more human ways to go about this that attack individuals and DBC’s good work.
Your double-talk comment tracks are all over the place and it is pretty easy to compile them as “evidences” as your friend Barry/dr hocokan would say. Oh by the way,isn’t it time your friend goes back to his horse training.”
It is unfortunately that you have brought out the very worst in people over the past few weeks. I feel really sorry for you and the others that “don’t get it”…
July 16th, 2008 at 5:04 pm
You are not keeping facts straight
DBC inner core team practiced a very rigid radical groupthink where people were expected to conform to the same thinging. We were being forced to listen to the same messages repeatedly, experiencing a lot of pressure to conform to their values, with our personal beliefs being disrespected. This rigid thinking drove the moderate DBC core members out. That’s the mentality I refer to. By the way, I am not the only one to feel this way. Most of the former DBC core members experienced the same thing, hence the reason why they are not involved with DBC. The first word is how I feel, but many people don’t like that word, so I respect their wishes and change it to a different term, a strong groupthink. If you don’t like the truth, then so be it. Truth is not always pleasant.
DBC, as a whole entity, meaning its conference, its volunteering, etc, does a terrific job. I’ve acknowledged that from the beginning. This is not double-talk. The inner core DBC member team is very different from the general DBC. I hope you understand the differences. Most people have already understood my statements and they are tired of me repeating my messages because several individuals refused to get the real message.
Asking for an open discourse is not destructive…. except for those who wants no open discourse. I’ve maintained my civility. I cannot control the behavior of other people, nor am I responsible for them. As Deaf/HoH adults, only they are accountable for their behavior. I can only be responsible for my own behavior.
More and more I am starting to feel Deaf people, as members of Deaf Community, are not permitted to raise questions without being accused of trying to destroy an organization or a person. This is very disturbing.
We see Washington Post raising questions, especially with the lack of transparency with the federal government… such as the collection of mass WMD in Iraq. Do people accuse them of being destructive to the hearing community? A lot of hearing people questions organizations and individuals everyday. Are they destructive? Of course not! This is part of American Democracy. I’ve been in the hearing community for ten years before I resurfaced in the Deaf Community two years ago. Never was I criticized for speaking out openly with my concerns in the hearing community, unlike in the Deaf Community.
To be brutally honest, I find this Deaf Community very oppressive where Deaf members cannot speak openly, asking questions, and calling for an open dialogue, without being crucified. This is America, where we have the freedom of speech.
Where is Deaf Empowerment? Where is the right of Deaf people to express their concerns and raise questions? It’s a sad day that Deaf people oppress their people from exercising their freedom of speech. This is very unhealthy and dysfunctional.
Incidentally I’ve received a lot of support from the Deaf Community via e mails. They are very happy to see better transparency.
July 16th, 2008 at 5:22 pm
Sarah, can you please leave MZ alone?! C’mon!
Anyway, I strongly agree with Cy and I have been saying this, but DH and DBC does not mix, sorry. Why do they have to be in the same organization?? DH can follow DBC around if they want and give presentation on a different stage away from DBC. DBC is for deaf babies and hearing parents of deaf babies, not the deaf adults (they already know ASL).
But I’m just blowing hot air cuz nobody is listening, so it is kind of frustrating. The same with people not listening to MZ, she has to explain/defend herself 50 times over, it is totally ridiculous!
Whatever!
July 16th, 2008 at 5:50 pm
H Mishka Zena…
I don’t think I have anything new to contribute to this discussion but I want to let you know that I believe in what you are trying to do. You have my full empathy. I can only hope that you continue to have the strength to go through this very tense time.
You and others opened my eyes to the subtle influences of Deafhood in Deaf Bilingualism Coalition. For this, I thank you and others.
Joseph Pietro Riolo
josephpietrojeungriolo@gmail.com
Public domain notice: I put all of my expressions in this post in the public domain.
July 16th, 2008 at 6:07 pm
I’m shocked:
Censorship at DeafRead: http://deafpundit.wordpress.com/2007/12/16/baaaaaad-idea-john-egbert/
Follow up:
More of Bad Ideas…. « The Deaf Edge http://deafpundit.wordpress.com/2007/12/17/more-of-bad-ideas/
“And my suspicions were confirmed - it was not John’s idea. Ella Mae Lentz confirmed that it was in fact, her idea. She defended herself on her blog, but what caught my eye was one of the comments by DE over there:
Attributing John’s attempt to elevate our discourse to “censorship”, while quoting philosophers to appear smart (as if Deaf people cannot offer anything of intellectual value), and attacking his ideas without even processing or discussing with John in ASL is another example of how deficit thinking has affected our community.
I find that comment quite interesting. I made a vlog in ASL”
July 16th, 2008 at 6:30 pm
I am sorry to see you still trying to explain yourself over and over, MZ.
I got you the first time.
I’m still very disturbed but have been keeping myself very busy (no choice, though - kids and summer amongst other things).
I am upset that John has accused you and the former DBC core members of being liars.
This whole thing is surreal, you know?
It was okay for us to go after JKF and she went as far as calling us names and even IJK.
But if we dare to criticize DBC leaders or other Deaf leaders, we are called deficit thinkers, practicing crab theory and so on.
That’s not to say you were criticizing DBC in the first place which caused a huge misunderstanding because you were concerned and wanted to get the message out to them.
I know that all you were trying to do is helping them, only to be forced to come forward with what you went through after being accused by the DBC leaders.
As a whole DBC with its original concept, I support and applaud them for taking actions with the help of the former dbc members who contributed a lot of their time and effort.
I was really impressed – and still am – with how much inspiration they have brought at the conference. It was a great rally with so many Deaf people coming to support the idea of teaching deaf babies sign.
But at this point, it’s all ruined for me. And seeing how you have been treated lately especially by the DBC leaders… it saddens me.
You know… it’s funny, MZ. You are calm and all that… and you are getting bashed from all around.
But when they throw tantrum fits on certain v/blogs, people look the other way. I chose to say nothing because I knew people would think I was bashing them.
People looked the other way – why? They are doing something important so just look the other way.
People, believe it or not, MZ does want to see DBC succeed as she has repeatedly said it over and over. So do I, even though I don’t agree with how they have been operating and there is always room for improvement.
They just chose not to listen.
July 16th, 2008 at 6:36 pm
Please click to see how far Sewell and some people in the community have gone to destroy some people.
MZ, I know you are not part of what I’m talking about. I’m not talking about you.
July 16th, 2008 at 6:52 pm
I’m deeply troubled by your incessant harassnent towards MZ.
July 16th, 2008 at 7:27 pm
Brian Mayes,
I will stop when you stop bashing DBC and the core members without having any knowledge or experinece with DBC except for what you read in these blogs.
IamMIne,
“But at this point, it’s all ruined for me. And seeing how you have been treated lately especially by the DBC leaders… it saddens me.”
Can you elaborate on exactly how has DBC leaders treated Mishkazena lately?….. since so far I have not seen one of the core leaders of DBC make a comment to Mishkazena or anyone that has been part of this nonsense.
Mishkazena,
In light of your free speech philosophy and freedom to question, have you noticed the way that DBC has been harrassed by Barry Sewell? Do you support his methods of interrogation?
It is one thing to ask questions, it is another thing to go at this like a witchhunt and not stop till someone is burnt at the stake.
What purpose has all this served?
July 16th, 2008 at 7:33 pm
I read about John Egbert’s comments from Deaf Edge’s blog in 2007. It was about censorship and deficient thinker under Deafread.
I do not know him. I assumed that John Egbert’s comments showed his fear that other person might do better than John’s like everything threaten his position. He simply wanted all the power and control (his way only) over Deafread bloggers and Vloggers.
That’s probably why Mishka struggled to retrieve SIMPLE full transparency. John took the control of DBC and kept things censorship from DBC supporters.
I might be wrong. I do not like people tried to manipulate our freedom of speech as deficient thinker. It’s our Freedom of Speech!
July 16th, 2008 at 7:41 pm
Finish! Sarah, Enough!
Stop harassing MZ!
July 16th, 2008 at 7:51 pm
Let Sarah keep harrassing. She forgot the Blog/ Vlog readers are watching her closely like microscope. They will eventually find out who she is. As same thing happened to John Egbert’s comments back to 2007. People usually saved their blog for future used.
July 16th, 2008 at 7:59 pm
You think I am harassing. I am only pointing out the obvious? What do you think DBC has gone through lately… Isn’t that harrassment? Sending out letters to employers, putting up a blog directly to defame DBC, posting AIM conversations, making up stories of “group think”. Come on… look in the mirror..
July 16th, 2008 at 8:04 pm
MZ Hang in there. I know you are a strong person. Sigh I feel so sad here.
July 16th, 2008 at 8:50 pm
MZ,
Your “analysis” is totally amateurish and actually is anti-intellectual. John has every right to weed people out whom he disagrees with. It was HIS group that he started and got off the ground. It’s up to the founder to set the initial goals of the group.
STOP your destructive activities. STOP immediately. If you don’t like DBC then STOP COMPLAINING AND SET UP YOUR OWN GROUP. The DBC has every right to pursue their way. THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT. PERIOD.
STOP.
July 16th, 2008 at 8:59 pm
FH
Obviously! You stated “John has every right to weed people out whatever he wanted” Sounds too dictatorship! No voting involved No agreement involved. It made sense to me.
You interpreted it very CLEARLY and LOUD!
You are sort of insulting DBC supporters and donators!
July 16th, 2008 at 9:02 pm
Rogue,
NONSENSE. How else would any new group be formed?
There is no other way to form a new group.
July 16th, 2008 at 9:04 pm
I’m talking about the beginning stages of setting up the new group, not the later stages.
MZ is bitching about being rejected in the beginning stages. She has no leg to stand on.
It was GOOD for her to be rejected, because it obviously would have been counterproductive for her to remain in it.
Also, she was NEVER a founding member. Her blog title of the previously blog is misleading and false. She is misleading people.
July 16th, 2008 at 9:07 pm
Nonsense? I am not going say anymore as long as you made a CLEAR MESSAGE for DBC supporters and donators.
Mishka and others will find out what was your CLEAR message.
July 16th, 2008 at 9:20 pm
Rogue,
Suppose you had an idea for a new group. YOU are the person that has the vision. It’s up to YOU to set the initial goals and pick the initial team.
There is no other way to do it.
Use your common sense, man.
You can’t set up a group composed of people who disagree on the foundational goals of the group. If MZ disagreed, then she should have gracefully left, and considered setting up her own group.
For her to continue this smear campaign on such a simple and non-controversial issue is obscene. She must stop, or she will lose all her credibility completely.
July 16th, 2008 at 9:26 pm
FH
Ok, can you explain to me who CREATED United States of America?
July 16th, 2008 at 9:27 pm
That is a country, not a non-profit group.
You are being anti-intellectual, too. Stop trying to be the professor, when you are only a student.
Start listening and learning.
July 16th, 2008 at 9:29 pm
You still not answering my question? Interesting.
July 16th, 2008 at 9:34 pm
My answer is that your question is inappropriate.
You can’t compare an entire country that way with a small non-profit group. The idea is absurd, and you are being anti-intellectual.
July 16th, 2008 at 9:43 pm
Well. It doesn’t make any difference how big or small this country or non profit or profit group to build the organization?
I am not being anti intellectual with you. I am just pointing it out how Capitialism works. People usually build the organization together like a TEAM not just one person.
Where did you learn “anti intellectual” like deficient thinker comes from? Did John taught you and DBC organization like this? am I correct? or not?
July 16th, 2008 at 9:43 pm
FH, I think you pretty much put another nail in the coffin when you spoke the truth and said it was HIS group. That was the problem, it did not represent the part of the deaf community that truely wanted bilingualism, but no, HIS group chose to do otherwise and chose to ignore valuable input that would have tremendously improved their chances of actually reaching out to these hearing parents of deaf babies, and again but no, that did not happen, why? because it was HIS group, it was HIS group that made all this happen. People did not agree with HIS group, people saw HIS group going the wrong way and chose to no longer remain silent and blew the whistle by exposing the truth.
July 16th, 2008 at 9:52 pm
additionally it is probably beneficial that some people decided to blow the whistle and let the truth out. That way if some other people decide to form a new organization to approach bilingualism for deaf babies, and I hope some people will. HIS group wont be able to say, “hey, why form that, we are already doing that?” but now they wont be able to do that and people will understand why. I just hope that some other people form an organization, so they can do it right, and not be biased against any communication modes, which will make it significantly easier to actually be able to approach hearing parents of deaf babies. Naturally, I would rather see DBC reform and start again from scratch, but the problem is that the name in itself is already a thorn in AG Bell’s behind and they are an organization that is needed to make it easier to access to those hearing parents of deaf babies, that being the case, I do think a new organization needs to be formed.
July 16th, 2008 at 9:59 pm
FH
By the way, John may find out what you said on this blog. He might weed you out of DBC organization. As you said “John can do whatever he wanted.” : )
July 16th, 2008 at 10:00 pm
I resigned in protest over the way the inner core team was handled like a dictatorship and how DBC leader John Egbert called for censorship of certain bloggers since DBC leaders didn’t like how they wrote. I don’t condone censorship of anyone, especialy the “unpopular” ones due to their beliefs. I was aghast that DBC would blatantly disregard the Deaf Community’s right of expression.
Since then, the others and I already have set up our own organization, ASL Think Tank, a clearinghouse site on Deaf Bilingualism without any bias except promoting bilingualism along with other options the parents may choose.
The founding members were John, Amy, Ella, MZ, Barb, DE, and several others who shall be unnamed, out of respect for their privacy. The others are out, too.
All I ask is for transparency and you call it ‘bitching’, even though I repeatedly said I support DBC’s mission and applauded its success with its conference. . Interesting choice of words. It doesn’t reflect too well on you, FH. Think how the parents would feel when they read these comments from DBC members.
Sarah, calling for transparency and exposing the truth is now ‘harassing’. hmm… this is a very peculiar way of looking at this. I wonder what covering up and remaining untransparent is called.
Radical Groupthink: I was referring only to the INNER CORE DBC TEAM with the core DBC leaders and core DBC members, not the DBC itself or the general members. There is a BIG difference. Don’t confuse these two groups.
July 16th, 2008 at 10:18 pm
Anon,
You’re being ridiculous. It was HIS idea and HIS group at the beginning. HE had the initial vision.
THAT WAS THE PROPER WAY TO START IT.
July 16th, 2008 at 10:27 pm
Deaf hood, DBC, D/deaf, ASL, freedom of speech controversy, I love it! This is what America is all about: the FREEDOM to express thoughts without any fear of retaliation but in Deaf America, why does retaliation exist? (V/Bloggers leaving Deaf Read to retaliate those who exercised their rights to the freedom of speech is one example) I ponder…
MZ, stay strong! Your commentary is excellent, loud and crystal clear! Thank you!!
July 16th, 2008 at 10:46 pm
Advocate, I hear you. Obviously some people do not appreciate the value of feedback and questions from concerned Deaf members. This is disturbing. Nobody is going to oppress my freedom of expression. I encourage Deaf people to open a constructive dialogue with others, including leaders, without fear of retaliation.
Incidentally, don’t you think it is double standard.?.. When some unpopular ASL users with oral backgrounds, oral deaf, c.i. users, and parents of c.i. users were bashed horribly, the Deaf Community didn’t complain.
And thank you. I’ve received a lot of support for my stance in asking for transparency.
July 16th, 2008 at 10:58 pm
FH, no problem, I have absolutely no qualms what he wants to do, its not going to be as successful as most of us would like it to be, thats all. I will sit back and enjoy watching someone else do what is actually right and be much more successful at it.
July 16th, 2008 at 11:11 pm
Mishka,
Since you brought up ASL Think Tank, how do I get ahold of you to inquire more about it as I get the hunch that you and the others may not yet be ready to reveal too much about it just yet, and Im wanting to find out more to see if it is what I think it may be, and if it is, I just might offer my services if its needed.
Or you can just send me an email as I imagine you can see what my email is as I have to include that in order to submit comments and just put ASL Think Tank in the subject box so that I know it isnt spam.
July 16th, 2008 at 11:47 pm
I agree that any organization, to be successful and to grow, needs to be transparent and accountable. If DBC does indeed wish to promote deafhood — a particular type or whatever — along with the bilingual concept, that is fine as long as they are clear about what they are doing.
I’m interested in learning more about the ASL Think Tank, though…?
July 17th, 2008 at 12:45 am
You say: “Nobody is going to oppress my freedom of expression” but the reality is that it is YOU who is attempting to oppress the freedom of expression of members of the DBC by attempting to DESTROY it.
If you don’t like the DBC, then LEAVE IT ALONE and work on your own group.
July 17th, 2008 at 12:45 am
[…] There’s a fair furor at present over DBC, the details of which I hardly need to recount. But I came across this, and it has got me thinking: The deep division between the subgroups reflects the contrasting core values of deafness. For the oral deaf and users of c.i. people, being able to hear is of utter importance, reflecting the value of the hearing society. For the Deaf Community, it’s totally the opposite as the deafness trait is the most cherished culture for the majority of Deaf people. (from Deaf Community: Cultural Values and Double Standards) […]
July 17th, 2008 at 4:04 am
For whatever it’s worth, I read this somewhere and now I cannot find it to give credit to the person who coined it: “A community that does not accept one of it’s members is not a community at all.” I think that’s it in it’s entirety.
July 17th, 2008 at 5:51 am
ASL Think Tank is a great website… more informative than DBC, concentrating entirely bilingualism (nothing anti-AGBell there.) It has been up almost a year…the link is: http://www.aslthinktank.com/
July 17th, 2008 at 7:27 am
DT,
How true! I learned something last night from my VP conversation with a genius. We are not a deaf community. We are an ASL community. The term ‘deaf’ is a medical term. One does not form a community based on a medical term. One forms a community based on language therefore the name of our community is ASL. The term, deaf is what divides us. The term ASL is what unites us.
Now, guess who is part of ASL community? Anybody that signs ASL! It involves interpreters, hearing people, oralists, CI, and the deaf, as long as they sign ASL.
Guess what it means? The term for Deafhood is invalid! Sorry Ella. Sorry DE. Sorry Paddy Ladd. Sorry DBC.
July 17th, 2008 at 8:21 am
FH, you are sadly mistaken.
Where did MZ say she didn’t like DBC?
Your saying of “LEAVE IT ALONE!” is oppression because she is speaking out.
if you don’t like the truth, then leave her alone.
Have a nice day, FH.
July 17th, 2008 at 8:41 am
Asking DBC to become more transparent is ‘destroying’ it?
That logic is very odd. hmmm… now to think of it, that would make sense if DBC doesn’t want to become transparent with its second agenda. So far we have seen a lot of denials about the role of Deafhood.
FH, you got it backwards. The lack of transparency is destroying DBC, not the truth.
July 17th, 2008 at 8:57 am
FH avoided my questions last nite. She KNEW what I am talkibng about. She ruined DBC’s reputation not us because she made a very unprofessional and heckler comments .
She kept using the word “anti intellectual” on us all the time. I know what “anti intellectual” means… “Communitst thinker”. FH and DBC are “anti intellectual” peroid! I bet John brainwashed FH and DBC crews.
It is a MIRACLE that FH still ranting. It made me wondering how DBC organization crews handle
s DBC supporters, parents and deaf adults.
I warned FH many times that Blog/Vlog readers are watching her comments REAL CLOSE like a microscope.
I would NOT near DBC organization since it turned me off.
July 17th, 2008 at 9:03 am
DT/FH
So be it, you made fool out of yourself. Please review your previous comments carefully!
Go post your own blog and say whatever you wanted since you are holding Mishka a hostage. You refused to reveal yourself because you knew John will find out and will “wedd you out” as what.
DBC organization turned me off. Next person will do the same.
July 17th, 2008 at 9:16 am
I found another website that shows a video of a child named Rachel Chaikof, and it looks like she has very limited spoken vocabulary. She makes small sentences that are not really the same as a hearing child her age makes. AVT used gestures and voiced to Rachel.
July 17th, 2008 at 9:18 am
Floridagirl
Which website?
July 17th, 2008 at 10:04 am
Just want to let you know that you did a great job with your post.
July 17th, 2008 at 11:25 am
Can we not have a group dedicated to just unifiying us all ? Must it always be A or B ? I think we are all getting very very tired of the endless ya-boo tactics of most groups these days, there has to be more surely ? It alienates the moderates, makes apathetics of many others, and leaves nothing but negatives, dissapearing into some ‘black hole’ emerging out the other side still black.
July 17th, 2008 at 12:02 pm
Anyway, notwithstanding the inadvertent simplification of Deaf/oral deaf ;-), I do fully agree with MishkaZena here about the need for DBC (and for any organization, really) to be transparent and accountable. That way, their supporters know exactly what to expect and can make informed decisions. Kind of like the parents we want to help ;-).
I found ASL Think Tank, and *love* it! It’s absolutely fascinating reading/watching through what she has to say. Wow!
July 17th, 2008 at 12:21 pm
DR Hocokan, interesting concept, does that mean a new term is going be coined here? ASLhood
July 17th, 2008 at 1:21 pm
Floridagirl,
Where have you been?
FYI Rachel Chaikof is now grown and in college. She has her own blog called Cochlear Implant Online and is the lead developer of deaf village aggregator.
BTW she speaks very articulately, on the level of many of her hearing peers.
July 17th, 2008 at 2:11 pm
The Rogue…#118….I don’t understand the inclusion of me in that post.
July 17th, 2008 at 2:27 pm
#114 Outstanding! That simple focus on ASL community really welcome everyone learned sign language only not matter any ages. Also ASL Think Tank great program go for it.
Now, I ask you what is signs for Deafhood just finger spell but I check on interent You Tube what I saw sign use “Deaf” one finger with ear and ” Hood ” signs like same guts use stomach between hip that interest to me. I remember long ago I met good friend from UK signs use guts vary of other words like sign for “money” use hand with guts well but we dislike signs their? ASLhood no thanks!
July 17th, 2008 at 2:36 pm
heh I was being sarcastic when I said ASLhood
July 17th, 2008 at 2:42 pm
DT
I apologized. My fault as I should have double checked my writing on #118. I am only directed to FH.
July 17th, 2008 at 8:06 pm
MZ, don’t play coy with us. You ganged up with Barry , Ben and others with the goal of destroying the DBC. Ben even stated that explicitly as his goal.
You need to apologize for that, and for also playing the “cult card.” Shame, shame, everlasting shame on you.
July 17th, 2008 at 8:23 pm
MZ,
I thinking at home pop up my head I wonder about any campaign activity for or against political. I am little worried NAD and DBC about Tax rules for Exemption 501.c.3 and 501.c.4 that you make choice. It that right NAD and DBC use 501c3 non profit organzation? But AGbell have 501c4 have their money from income tax they can use pros or cons let AGBell’s lawyers can be sues to public school allow ASL users but what about NAD can to do? Nope against action that bother me a lot because of that code 501.c.3. If NAD and DBC might switch to 501.c.4 that different story. I hope you will understand me how are strength that organization set up as well future. I am employees at IRS. My prayer DBC keep up make stronger in the future think about it. Make you choice. Go look at IRS rules:
501c3: To be tax-exempt under section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code, an organization must be organized and operated exclusively for exempt purposes set forth in section 501(c)(3), and none of its earnings may inure to any private shareholder or individual. In addition, it may not be an action organization, i.e., it may not attempt to influence legislation as a substantial part of its activities and it may not participate in any campaign activity for or against political candidates.
Organizations described in section 501(c)(3) are commonly referred to as charitable organizations. Organizations described in section 501(c)(3), other than testing for public safety organizations, are eligible to receive tax-deductible contributions in accordance with Code section 170.
The organization must not be organized or operated for the benefit of private interests, and no part of a section 501(c)(3) organization’s net earnings may inure to the benefit of any private shareholder or individual. If the organization engages in an excess benefit transaction with a person having substantial influence over the organization, an excise tax may be imposed on the person and any organization managers agreeing to the transaction.
Section 501(c)(3) organizations are restricted in how much political and legislative (lobbying) activities they may conduct. For a detailed discussion, see Political and Lobbying Activities. For more information about lobbying activities by charities, see the article Lobbying Issues; for more information about political activities of charities, see the FY-2002 CPE topic Election Year Issues.
501c4:
To be tax-exempt as a social welfare organization described in Internal Revenue Code (IRC) section 501(c)(4), an organization must not be organized for profit and must be operated exclusively to promote social welfare. Pursuant to changes enacted as part of the Taxpayer Bill of Rights 2, the earnings of a section 501(c)(4) organization may not inure to the benefit of any private shareholder or individual. If the organization engages in an excess benefit transaction with a person having substantial influence over the organization, an excise tax may be imposed on the person and any managers agreeing to the transaction. See Introduction to IRC 4958 for more information about this excise tax. For a more detailed discussion of the exemption requirements for section 501(c)(4) organizations, see IRC 501(c)(4) Organizations. For more information about applying for exemption, see Application for Recognition of Exemption.
To be operated exclusively to promote social welfare, an organization must operate primarily to further the common good and general welfare of the people of the community (such as by bringing about civic betterment and social improvements). An organization that restricts the use of its facilities to employees of selected corporations and their guests is primarily benefiting a private group rather than the community and, therefore, does not qualify as a section 501(c)(4) organization. Similarly, an organization formed to represent member-tenants of an apartment complex does not qualify, since its activities benefit the member-tenants and not all tenants in the community, while an organization formed to promote the legal rights of all tenants in a particular community may qualify under section 501(c)(4) as a social welfare organization. An organization is not operated primarily for the promotion of social welfare if its primary activity is operating a social club for the benefit, pleasure, or recreation of its members, or is carrying on a business with the general public in a manner similar to organizations operated for profit.
Seeking legislation germane to the organization’s programs is a permissible means of attaining social welfare purposes. Thus, a section 501(c)(4) social welfare organization may further its exempt purposes through lobbying as its primary activity without jeopardizing its exempt status. An organization that has lost its section 501(c)(3) status due to substantial attempts to influence legislation may not thereafter qualify as a section 501(c)(4) organization. In addition, a section 501(c)(4) organization that engages in lobbying may be required to either provide notice to its members regarding the percentage of dues paid that are applicable to lobbying activities or pay a proxy tax. For more information, see Lobbying Issues .
The promotion of social welfare does not include direct or indirect participation or intervention in political campaigns on behalf of or in opposition to any candidate for public office. However, a section 501(c)(4) social welfare organization may engage in some political activities, so long as that is not its primary activity. However, any expenditure it makes for political activities may be subject to tax under section 527(f). For further information regarding political and lobbying activities of section 501(c) organizations, see Election Year Issues, Political Campaign and Lobbying Activities of IRC 501(c)(4), (c)(5), and (c)(6) Organizations, and Revenue Ruling 2004-6.
July 17th, 2008 at 9:04 pm
Who Can Speak, interesting. You may want to bring that to the attention of NAD and DBC.
FH, I’ve already stated my position very clearly in several posts, including the one above, and my many comments. Please don’t play clueless, implying I have the same goal as others, whatever theirs may be. I believe Ben asked for clarification, too. I would appreciate it if you stop putting words in my mouth/hands. All I ask is transparency. I guess truth isn’t important to you, but it’s for me and countless others who have contacted me privately and thanked me for coming forward.
It’s obvious you are upset only because I had the integrity to step forward. Not only did I, but also did others like Deaf Pundit, Amy, Dianrez and Anne Marie. None of us want to see DBC that we helped build the foundation, destroyed, but be stronger with both agendas known, though it seems the DBC leaders will never admit to the second agenda.
I am not interested in this game you are playing. You’ve constantly ignored my comments and it’s very obvious you have no intention of hearing my side or other former DBC members’ sides. You don’t care about Deafhood as a strong part of DBC being hidden from the public.
By the way, I have no intention of apologizing for my honesty and for my feelings. I did the right thing by refusing to continue their lack of transparency.
July 17th, 2008 at 9:39 pm
For those who are playing games, dodging around the quest for the truth, I’ve made a decision to copy and paste Merriam & Webster Dictionary’s definition for TRANSPARENT.
Main Entry: trans·par·ent
Pronunciation: \tran(t)s-ˈper-ənt\
Free from pretense or deceit : frank b: easily detected or seen through : obvious c: readily understood d: characterized by visibility or accessibility of information especially concerning business practices
synonyms see clear
— trans·par·ent·ly adverb
— trans·par·ent·ness noun
DBC tells us they are only about signs for deaf babies and bilingualism. Yet they tout deafhood every where they went. Elizabeth’s point is they need to declare that DBC is also about deafhood but they have refused to, opting to hide deafhood when they see fit and tout deafhood when they see fit. This is not transparency and since some of you are arguing this subject to death I figured you didn’t know what transparency really meant.
July 18th, 2008 at 1:22 am
[…] Drivel’s Own Company Integrity? Ethics? HA! DeafRead, the Deaf Blogosphere, and Ethics Deaf Community: Cultural Values and Double Standards This entry was posted on Friday, July 18th, 2008 at 2:21 am and is filed under Blogging/ […]
July 18th, 2008 at 12:58 pm
MZ, I thought you dislike being a oralist when you discovered Gally and eagar to learn sign language. So you could kick oralism out of your way. But you tricked us…you have your possession of oralism where you grew up. I don’t understand your change..back forth to oralism and then go back to ASL. Then go gack to oralism to your heart. Back forth and back forth. Which one you like the most?