Friday, July 04, 2008
DBC: Restrategize Counterattack On AGB
Revisit the original mission of promoting ASL for Babies and Children and away from oralism.
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Revisit the original mission of promoting ASL for Babies and Children and away from oralism.
By Matt Daigle
70 comments:
I agree with you. You are right. Hearing parents do want their deaf kids to experience same hearing culture. I have seen deaf parents do want their hearing kids to experience same deaf culture. Deaf parents become so proud when they say their hearing kids sign fluently. Why can't hearing parents be proud when their deaf kids speak? What is difference? I know ASL is best mode of communication for deaf kids. Visual language works best for deaf kids.. :)
Beautiful comments. I agree with you. DBC has to restrategize itself. I hope John, the founder is capable of cutting loose his quest and hate for AG Bell. Unfortunately for as long as John and the remaining core group remains in DBC they will be viewed as AG Bell bashers. In order to restore DBC's credibility these people has to go. But perhaps the damage has been done to DBC's namesake. Many people suggested starting a new movement / organization with a cleaner slate. Currently there is discussion among a group of approximately 15 bilingual deaf people from different professional fields, many of which were original DBC founding members. They left because they did not agree with John's approach to stand up to AG Bell and damage the basic messages. Regardless, you said it very well. Simplify the messages and stick to the basics.
Additionally, read my blog at http://hocokan.blogspot.com/2008/07/hocokan-center.html and learn why DBC is doing what it's been doing. They represent linear thinkers, which is not helpful. You can read more about it at this blog. We all must learn from this cynical mistake in order to preserve our language and culture.
Dr Hocokan,
Diversity is helpful as a consenus in keeping it healthy and balanced, but sometimes it hurts the success of an organization as it seems to be the case with DBC. The members need to separate their issues and biases and focus on the mission and goals of the organization just like all other organizations whose members are as diverse. NRA members are not all rabid conversative gun carrying Republician rednecks or cowboys. Many are urbanite, democrats, liberals, radicals, or moderate. But they all believe in a single ideal - that we all should have the right to carry arms. The more moderate members counterbalances the more devout members in their ideals and mission. This should be the same for DBC - some members are devout anti-oralism, some are devout pro-ASL, some support CI, some support oralism to an extent, as they all balance out each other's contribution to the organization and keeps it healthy but they should all have one ideal - that ASL is essential to the language development in deaf babies and children. Nothing more. Just like NRA's simple mission - right to bear arms, nothing more or less.
I don't know if we have four senses. Maybe we have one special sense additional to that four senses. We have higher spatial skills, so that we have better common sense. When I was teen, I never saw ASL before. I understand what they were talking about. I then sign correctly the first time. I noticed that hearing kids don't understand at all. They can't sign correctly the first time. We have to teach them repeat and repeat and repeat until they sign correctly.
(part 2) Wild boy of Averignon was very much like an animal. Dr. Itard told that he was deaf, but Laurent Clerc tested him and discovered he was hearing. A deaf woman of Washington state was isolated from human like the Wild Boy of Averignon, but she behaved like human and understood some about us. Maybe that's why hearing kids have to be schooled to keep civilization ways?
Salticid68,
Interesting about your signing right the first time you learned ASL compared to the hearing kids. The same was true for my husband and many other deaf kids. It is an innate connection to ASL as a language. As a teacher, I DO see kids who struggle with ASL as they don't seem to have any innate connection to it. I wonder if it is true for any language - one has innate recognition for a certain language. Dr Ammons, my Spanish teacher, acquired Spanish language quite readily when many of us don't.
Salticid68,
Agreed! A linguist told Harvard's
scientist Steve Pinker about the deaf children in the Central America. She witnessed the children developing sign language on their own for several years. She was interviewed by Researcher
Perry of "60 Minutes". She told him what Dr. Pinker had told her.
It is language instinct that drives langueless children to develop a language.
If you are interested, read
"Language Instinct" by Steve
Pinker of Harvard in 1994. (Thanks
to Linguist Bob E. Johnson at
Gallaudet!)
Thank you for taking time to be a true critic who cares about Deaf children's access to ASL!
I agree with you...
I did say the similar things last winter and again, recently... back off AGBell/CI and focus on the mission statement. Focus on the target audience, not imagined "enemies". AGBell is a good oraganization which has helped a lot of parents, just different organization. DBC could become a good organization which hearing parents could immediately look up to find out what kind of resources... not to find themselves reading/viewing the anti-AGBell/anti-CI slogans on the DBC website and DeafRead also. Deafhood... hearing parents don't need to hear about it... since they need to focus on their grieving, dealing with all kinds of information, etc. The target audience should be hearing parents and of course, audiologists and hospitals with newborn screenings.
My viewpoint is where they often are told of their child's deafness... hospitals and audiology clinics, right? So it would be a good way to start there, to educate the workers of how to provide the information in a more unbiased way, giving emotional support in a more positive way, that ASL is the ideal language to help babies' brains to develop, so forth. After all, CIs are here to stay... parents will continue giving the babies CIs.
My son DOES not have an "innate" rapport to ASL, even though he is profoundly deaf. He just took to English like a baby fish to water, from beginning, but then it is due to his being born hearing. So every child is different.
Cy, a good positive vlog.
Your present real impressed me. I am curious because I heard rumor that AGB filed suit some schools for use sign language. If so, what do you present? Because I want to know how can DBC stop AGB from sue school for allow use sign language? Thanks...
I would like to add Dr. Hocokan's points about the medias that DBC needs to work on.
However they failed to do so. Why?
I want you to take a hard look at
http://xanga.com/Frank_Sandra/664464538/dbc-conference-slide-show.html
Look at the 1:32 picture at the "near" end.
This message have driven many hearing people and medias away already.
I have never considered my hearing husband and children this kind of message.
Understand, Cy?
White Ghost
It's not AG Bell you should be after.
It's the ASL extremists and militants you should be after. ASL extremists and militants scare parents from letting ASL advocates from participating in parent's decisions to implant their deaf kids.
As long there's vlogs and blogs out there portraying ASL advocates as bullies, extremists, and all the negative stuff. Parents are going to find them in their homework and they're going to learn about them and they will remember them.
Richard
Hi i left 2 comments under ur vlog at DVTV thanks
My son is a model of Bi Lingual. He's totally fluent with ASL and he speaks and hears like a hearing person at the age of 4 now. Ci does made a difference and he's hearing level is at 10 db on both ears.
His first language is ASL and that is how every children with or without Ci is to have a strong language at the earliest stages of their lives.
DBC has lost my support which made me to lean towards to AG Bell and hopefully they will adopt this concept of Bi Lingual.
Oopps! My mistake. Sorry.
Correction:
http://www.xanga.com/Frank_Sandra/664464538/dbc-conference-slide-show.html
If does not work, go to Deafread.
White Ghost
WH, I clicked your link, but what
I got was a message saying
"Sorry, the page you requested was not found. The page you are looking for might have been removed, had its name changed, or is temporarily unavailable."
Do you have an updated link? I would love to see it.
There is only the way to stop the ongoing controvesty is to withdraw the Early Hearing Detection and Intervention (EDHI) bill in the U.S. Senate. So the bill could be re-written to be real fair to deaf babies and youngsters.
We could force the AGBell and other audiogical industry to compromise and negoitate with the DBC and NAD,
EHDI bill is definitely an "eugenic bill" in many ways. Why this bill have to include "medical intervention" and seen deaf babies as "birth defect"?
Robert L. Mason (RLM)
RLMDEAF blog
Jerome Cain,
It is just a rumor. AGB helped give parents resources on how to file complaints (meditation, due process, etc) against a school district for not providing oral education. What happened to options in special education? Thre must be options in public education. If you want ASL only, oral only schools, go private.
Jerome Cain,
I've not heard anything about AGB suing schools for the deaf for their signing programs. Anyone heard of it?
Karen,
Yes, I've read about your son who makes quicker connection to English than ASL - Karen...it is true for anyone...not everyone makes connection to ASL as readily as some do. I work with kids...I've seen kids who grew up at the same school for the deaf and yet demostrates lackluster ASL skills. Now, this could be due to weak communication at home and poor quality teachers which is the usual and valid rationale but some of them grew up with the same classmates who develop strong ASL skills.
As for myself, I am profoundly deaf but I feel more connected to English than I do ASL, frankly. However, to LEARN, to DEVELOP language, I need ASL. I learned English primarily through reading books - unlike your son who use auditory tools to learn to read. I acquired my English skills strictly by reading books. I am a rare breed. My English teacher in middle school was the only teacher who managed to teach the grammatical structure and rules of English to make sense of how English is written. One teacher out of my 12 years of grade school career.
So, each of us learn so widely differently. The trick is figuring how the individual child learn - how their brain process information. I am a visual learner - I learn by reading and seeing my environments rather than in classroom or from teacher. Yet ASL is a visual language, but I did not learn from it as much as my classmates probably did, and most of my classmates were hard of hearing, but could not process information aurally or orally. See the contradications?
No wonder Deaf Education is such an oxymoron. Frankly, EDUCATION as a whole is complicated, both for deaf and hearing because my sons do not so well in their high schools. The teachers there don't really teach. They give out assignments, and spend a chunk of their time managing the classroom. I don't see this as teaching. This is not how kids process academic information - watching kids misbehave in the classroom.
So, I think education in America needs a serious overhaul. Not just Deaf Education.
Richard,
Yes, many of us know the ASL and Deafhood extremists are doing more harm than good. They have their hearts in the right places but they are going about it in a way that could be better. We need to unite and help them see the light and restrategize.
RLM,
How come I've never heard of this EDHI bill? Does NAD? DBC? Anyone else know?
Anonymous, Thanks for information. I understood it was about filed suit against public school that held deaf classroom. I just wondered about it.
RLM mentioned this:
There is only the way to stop the ongoing controvesty is to withdraw the Early Hearing Detection and Intervention (EDHI) bill in the U.S. Senate. So the bill could be re-written to be real fair to deaf babies and youngsters.
We could force the AGBell and other audiogical industry to compromise and negoitate with the DBC and NAD,
That is what I though. It would be a good way to work together and aim on the congress and rise the lawmaking?
That way the justice can interpret from law that AGB can not do or can do...
Just wonder,... I am for ASL bilingual coalition!
That 1:32 slide showed back of a t-shirt that said "Hearing is Deaf-Impaired".
Previous slide also showed another t-shirt that said "Can you read Hands?"
both shirts by nohear.com at
http://nohear.com/shirts1/
Wow! Thanks for the rich information! I acquired Spanish language quickly. Maybe that depends on our teachers? At MSSD, I had a talkative, charismatic, and cheerful teacher with fluency in ASL including a lot of facial expression. Maybe that explains? Btw, a picture is worth of thousands of words; and English language is less concrete than ASL. Maybe that's why the deaf woman of Washington were more human than the Wild Boy of Averignon? We have more self-taught?
Salticid68
just a fyi to all that “Dr” Hocokan (Barry Sewell) was asked to be silent or mum on his experience with DBC until after NAD convention finishes (JEgbert and DOReyonolds for DBC are presenting there).
Barry Sewell himself explained this somewhere...I don't remember which blog.
DBC did a great job by taking action that no one has done that before.
Now some people are complaining about and attacking DBC unconstructively. It will not help DBC and Deaf babies and children.
I went there and there are so many people with diversity backgrounds in DBC. They have worked together for the same cause. They did a great job. People think otherwise that the sky is falling and the end of world is coming. I find that bizarre.
I have given DBC my full support because of its mission and its action. Don't judge DBC based on people's backgrounds. DBC will always change no matter who the leaders are, just work our damn butt to get our message out there!
Unconstructive fight is the Crab Theory. That has destroyed us historically. Please don't do that again. We can do discuss constructively. But some responses and blogs are not helpful. Let us get our act together regardless of conservative, liberal, socialist and their extremist or not views.
We must keep one organization and we must do whatever we can do for Deaf babies and children. Don't waste our time building another organization or more organizations. Or we could end up balkanization countries.
Thanks
Deafchip
Deafchip,
Do you think my vlog was unconstructive towards DBC? I think DBC is a great fledging organization that needs a little bit damage control and cleaning up. Like an analogy I used in another vlog, NRA, National Rifle Association, like DBC, has such a diversified membership but yet they all have single mindset - right to carry arms. ONE mission statement. This is the model DBC needs to adopt - ONE mission and that would be promoting ASL for our Deaf Babies and Children. Nothing more or less. Drop the anit-CI propanganda. CI is here to stay and we cannot change the parents' desire for their children to hear and speak but we CAN change their misconception that oralism and AVT therapy is the only way to go - that ASL is essential to language development and that Bilingual approach is the way to go rather than oralism alone. I think this should be DBC's role and remain neutral on CI. Extremist approach often backfire and lead to collapse of an organization.
Deafchip, I concur.
Shel
Cy,
I agree that constructive feedback is great and helpful. (I have been to the Milwaukee convention, and saw the same things Deafchip saw.)
However, when negative feedback comes from anger and focuses on personal agendas, and labelling people as such and such, that is when criticism becomes destructive.
That is what I was referring to when I agreed with Deafchip.
Shel
Hi Cy,
No I did not mean you. I mean some people are not helping DBC constructively. Sorry about that. You have your own right to express your opinion.
In fact, DBC did not mention anything about CI. It focus on Bilingualism only.
You can check on its website. yes some people do not support CI and there are others who support CI. They share same goal for Deaf babies and children is Bilingualism.
It is less than one year old organization and is still learning and improving. That is normal progress for all organizations. I want to ask people to back off for now and give DBC a room to grow. I do not want anyone to jump into conclusion and attack a baby organization because of different beliefs other than Bilingualism for Deaf babies and children. That I still find it hard to believe. It appears that it is history repeating. Have they learnt their lessons? Just tell them to calm down and look and be involved in appropriate and professional matters rather than threatening, blackmailing and insulting. I find that not very helpful and very unhealthy. I find that very selfish and take away huge opportunities for DBC and future Deaf babies and children for their own selfish agenda. That kind of people that I cannot do business with. I am manager and I understand the world of politics, businesses and economies. We must play the games in appropriate ways. About rally, yes it is very healthy and peaceful rally. If it was violent and destructive rally, that would be a different story. But it didnt. The best convention and someone is trying to destroy that. That is quite a shock to me and many participants.
Thanks for asking me and take care
Deafchip
Deafchip
Hi Cy,
I got from www.dbcusa.org. It states:
DBC promotes the early acquisition of American Sign Language for all Deaf Babies and Children. DBC promotes the acquisition of English as a second language. Bilingualism promotes the respect of both ASL and English as two separate languages; both having extreme value to cognitive and literacy development. DBC recognizes amplification, speech and listening training as supplementary tools used alongside American Sign Language if the child shows evidence that these techniques will be beneficial and not impact social and emotional development.
It says everything. Its goal is to get all Deaf babies and children to use bilingual approach. Nothing more nothing less.
Hope this helps. Some people have tried to pull a mountian out of a small hole of needle.
Deafchip
CY,
You said,
"Drop the anit-CI propanganda"
Did DBC ever promote what you said, "Drop the anit-CI propanganda"? DBC is not against ci or hearing aids or speech, etc!
Those that were not there at Milwaukee are doing all the talking how DBC should have done in Milwaukee that is causing confusion of what is really going on.
Cy, please don't join the ranks of those few crabs that haven't been there at Milwaukee at all too.
And I concur with DeafChip
Cy, your comment was not unconstructive as they would like you to believe. It is the criticism that helps our quest for perfection. Without it we will not get there. Criticism is never easy for the leaders to tolerate because mistakes are made under their watch so it's always difficult for them to accept. It's natural part of the territory, something they should be thanking us for instead of whining about it. A good leader always embrace criticism as their best friend. Otherwise they should not play the role of a leader. It's a simple fact.
That is correct. I was asked to refrain from spilling the beans (hard evidences) on DBC core members's hidden agendas and healthy disain for Oralism, Cochlear Implants and English language until after NAD convention. I am not sure why nor do I underatand what DBC has to do with NAD but out of respect for certain group of people I agreed to wait. It must be politics but mind you, I am mostly interested in correcting the corrpution that is happening within DBC. They are shedding conflicting messages in name of bilingualism and Deaf children. That has to stop. We are here to restore the dignity of bilingualism and deaf children, not Deafhood or ASL Powerhouse. This much should be clear to everybody.
Cy's message is crisp clear and she is absolutely right. She is not being unconstructive as some would like us to believe. She cares about ASL enough to know that we should simplify our messages for the hearing parents who ultimately decides the fate of 95% of deaf children.
more comments at DVTV vlogs, too...not just here...thanks :) thanks Deafchip, pdurr for the positive comments about DBC
what anti-CI message has DBC sent out to the public
pls be very specific
in terms of damage control - are not your two recent Vlogs part of Damage to DBC?
in one you go on at length about your husband's situation with his mother pressuring him to get a CI even as an adult then in the same breath u say - hey dont talk about CI its a non-issue
wow that is a contradictory statement
what message r u sending out?
also re: ur discussion on the declaration of independence and the US constitution - u emphasize the LENGTH of time the authors and framers deliberated on these important documents and state DBC should do the same?
hmmm is DBC forming a NEW governmental system? is DBC sending a declaration of war and independence to its country of origin???
hmmm ur analogy seems to be way off in terms of the sheer number of folks that would be impacted by these decisions and also the gravity and importance of the actions at hand
should DBC think carefuly and slowly YES YES YES
it is ironic that u cite the declaration of independence as a great example - when u read the document in FULL u will see why many folks of its time called it a whining list against King George filled with petty little items
it was radical and profound and progress and u can bet it did not shy away for difficult or hard issues
i am glad u r vlogging about this topic and im glad u love US history - its important
it is important for us to know that many folks were threatened and shook up by the strong stand some colonists were taking against the British and many were very critical of the HOWS to go about it
same as folks were critical of the abolitionists and the HOWS / strategies
To me - i find it totally curious that so many folks r vlogging / blogging criticism at DBC - EXACTLY WHAT FOR IS UNCLEAR AS THEY ARE NOT SPECIFYING DBCs BIG MISTAKES or media nightmare events
and no one is saying - HEY WHY DID THE MEDIA PITCH IT THAT WAY? FRAME IT THAT WAY? SET IT UP? which is the REAL issue
why r folks kicking the dog?
For those of u who want the DBC to back off of AGB - please please please put ur energy into setting up another bilingual advocacy group. i will support u all the way
the women's suffragist movement had multiple groups all working simultaneously to achieve their goals - same as the civil rights movement
as long as we are unified on the goal of bilingualism for Deaf children we will be PROGRESS
the hows of how folks do something can be debated long into the night and end up dividing us and distracting us while more and more babes and kids are raised without ASL
keep ur eyes on the prize folks - bilingualism
peace
patti durr
Take a peek at this slideshow;
http://www.xanga.com/Frank_Sandra/664464538/dbc-conference-slide-show.html
and go to 2:52 and you will see Deafhood in power point presentation. It had no business there.
Anonymous,
`in one you go on at length about your husband's situation with his mother pressuring him to get a CI even as an adult then in the same breath u say - hey dont talk about CI its a non-issue`
You MISSED the point. I said to drop anti-CI propanganda BECAUSE parents will NEVER give up the idea of their deaf children of being able to SPEAK and HEAR which was the case with my husband's mom even after 38 years. She knows he is Deaf yet she continues to bring up CI and hopes he will change his mind. This is the SAME mindeset of the AGB parents therefore DBC needs to back off on CI and focus only on ASL because by promoting anti-CI campaign will only have the opposite effect on the parents - they will go the opposite direction. That was my point. Don't spend energy or time on CI where AGB is concerned. Focus on DBC's strength which is ASL. Keep the mission simple and singular - ONE campaign.
`hmmm is DBC forming a NEW governmental system? is DBC sending a declaration of war and independence to its country of origin???`
Again, another point missed here. I said it TAKES TIME for an collective group to come TOGETHER and become a singular unit in their goals and missions. Congress is a single unit with 352 members. Same principle. Takes time. My point is DBC is a fledging organization and people are expecting smooth and professional operations already? Give it time and nuture it.
`the women's suffragist movement had multiple groups all working simultaneously to achieve their goals - same as the civil rights movement`
I've used the same analogy which you apparently missed yet again...I used the NRA, National Rifle Association. This organization has such diviersified membership from redneck cowboys to corporate executive...yet they all have ONE singular mindset and message - the right to bear arms. ONE. Not several. That was my message. DBC needs to focus on ONE agenda.
Some of you say anti CI campaign is a personal issue with some members of DBC but is not on its website...I suggest you go to MZ's blog. She found it and wrote about it. Yes, John Egbert tried to sidetrack the topic and used an older version of the mission statement. He put in the original mission statement from last year. I believe MZ came across some contradicatory messages on their website which were apparently recent and decided to blog about it. MZ is concerned about the mixed message and how parents may read and interpret their message. I agree with MZ - keep it simple and focused. Don't get sidetracked by emotional biases.
Again, this is in regards to the message found on the website - nothing to do with the convention - whatever happened there. Looks like anti-CI agenda was not brought up at the convention which was good. But according to those who saw the clips from the convention, Deafhood was brought up. This is another concern. Deafhood should not be part of DBC. THis is a personal campaign by some of the DBC members and nothing to do with DBC. DBC is not about Deafhood. This IS THE MIXED message and more than ONE agenda and NON FOCUSED.
Please don't take my words out of context. I did not say any of what you claimed I said. I am NOT against DBC. I am CONCERNED about the off-course they seem to be heading for. They need to be reined back on track.
I just got back here from mountains, I did think about the whole thing. What I realize, DBC has two main struggles, one is to try to maintain focus on ASL as a basic human right for children, those who are deaf, those who are truly entitled to their human rights to ASL as their primary language, and also for many more with range of hearing losses to be bilingual..and the second struggle at the same time is to empower Deaf people who have been unduly under privileged. It seems that DBC wishes to go for Deaf people first to heal before they can strive for their actual mission. I can understand that and hope that they will try to move on to just focus on getting their message set straight and be clear and just be all to attract parents of deaf children. I see this to be the uppermost important mission after all. We do not have time to keep on licking on wounds.
It leaves me thinking whether DBC will do what they really could, or a new organization will have to be formed.
Who said Cy's article is not constructive? I don't see anyone tell Cy directly that her article is not constructive. I was talking about other people not Cy.
Thanks
Deafchip
Cy,
You did an excellent job sticking to your underlying messages after this ANONYMOUS commentor tried to skew your message around and make it sound confusing. Your message in the VLOG was very CLEAR. You did your message via VLOG but yet this ANONYMOUS commentor misunderstood many portions of your message! What example has this ANONYMOUS commentor set for ASL? It is total embarrasment but it told me that DEAFHOOD movement is doomed.
Anne Marie,
~Deaf people first to heal ~
~ We do not have time to keep on licking on wounds ~
Wow. Never thought of that. Very true. Perhaps that is why some leaders slip in Deafhood agenda and CI propanganda. DBC is not the place for healing process. DBC is a political organization. A proactive organization. Me, too. Do we need a new organization? Dr Hocokan thinks not - only that some leaders need to step down.
Deafchip,
Thanks. :)
Cy-
John Egbert, Patti Durr, Chipmunk, Starbeam and others have shared on Deafread and Deafvideo.tv that DBC convention talked about Bilingualism…Bilingualism…Bilingualism and wanted for all Deaf children to use both languages...ASL and English. PowerPoint and slideshows have showed that too. Did you see them? Now are you and others saying that those people are liars? I got a surprise e-mail from one of the DBC leaders to assure me that they did emphaized on bilingualism. I believe them. I have no doubt about it. Why? They told me last fall in front of my face when I mentioned about no to CI on Deaf children. They said no since DBC’s mission is to focus on bilingualism. Please do not say I am lying here. I also see nothing wrong for the convention to talk about Deafhood. We need to be educated about Deafhood (unfortunately I have not gone to workshop yet but hopefully one day soon). We need to be educated that we own ourselves and we need to take the stand and say no more oppression. We have done nothing for Deaf children for many generations and Deafhood is to give our identity and pride back and take the stand. My goodness! Of course those intelligent DBC leaders would not put “Deafhood” on hearing peoples face when they come together to share about DBC's mission. Please. You all need to take Prozac. I am serious.
Penny,
Yes, Deafhood is benefitical and educational for us but I have to ask you what does it have to do with DBC? Did it have a place at the convention? The purpose of DBC is to expose ASL to the parents. Deafhood is not a good way to attract parents of deaf children. The parents would not make a connection or relate to the concept. Deafhood is more a self-discovery journey for the individual deaf adults or teens. Deafhood is for deaf people, not for hearing parents who are not familiar with deafness or exposed to other aspects of deafness. Most of them have only medical view on deafness and will not relate to anything beyond that. We have to put ourselves IN THEIR SHOES rather than expecting THEM to put themselves in ours. They simply do not relate because they have different journeys as hearing parents of deaf children. We have to think about THAT rather than investing emotional biases into a political organization.
Deafhood has its place and it was not at DBC convention.
Cy-
I understand what you are trying to say here but remember there are many TV programs and radio channels without CC offer Self-Help, Self-Journey and etc for hearing audience. Deaf people do not live in one town, one city, or one state but all over the country. The leaders/speakers for Deafhood are not able to attend all states in short time to provide workshops. Impossible! Since we are all surprised that 500-700 people showed up for the first time convention so I do not see what is the harm for speakers to provide brief workshop on Deafhood. I strongly believe that Deafhood was discussed inside the room not on the platform (Outside) where everyone was gathered and shared to the world to let all Deaf children sign. We have been putting IN THEIR SHOES for CENTURIES! What happened to many of deaf children and adults? You know the answer. Patti Durr said there were many horn blasting and positive reaction from hearing people. Please remember that John Egbert tried many times to have dialogue with AGB. Some hearing parents have sent e-mail to Barb DiGi. That said a lot because she knows how to have dialogue with them (she is a pro in that area) and they feel safe around her. Who knows others got e-mail from some people too. That is a very good sign. I see it. Do You?
Penny,
If Deafhood was presented in a special presentation in a private room as a special feature to the convention, then I'd have no problem with it. It'd mean it is optional and whoever is curious and wants to learn about it can go in and listen. If it were thrown into the mix with the DBC platform agenda, then it sends confusing and contradictory messages, then I'd have a problem with it. If Deafhood was presented in a private room with featured speakers, then it'd be a great opportunity for many deaf adults to attend and learn all what it is about. Perhaps even some parents might be curious to learn about a deaf person's journey and see an insight into what their deaf children's journey might be like. It may scare some of them off and some might embrace it. As long as it was not part of the convention as a whole, it'd be ok.
Cy-
I can't answer to your comment because I am not sure where inside building was used for the presentation on Deafhood. Remember it is a first time convention and many information has to be shared to the audience. I also believe that DBC committees were surprised that 500-700 people showed up for the first time. Have you sent a personal e-mail to John Egbert about your concern? I do not wish to analyze everything to find mistakes because it is a first time convention. If we plan for next convention then we can participate and share our ideas and concerns when the time is right. DBC committees worked their ass off to prepare for this convention. They gave up a lot of their time and MONEY too. I am sure they thought what worked best. Give them a chance. Next time and next is always getting better. I am not even going to worry about it. Some AGB members’ watched DBC supporters on streets…they even waved and signed back to “ILY”. Some even met with DBC supporters for social during evening so that said a lot too. I am impressed how both of them respected to each other throughout weekend. Wow! We never have seen like this for over 100 years.
Oh wow.
I thought Cy's v/blog was an excellent, helping shine a light on DBC and I understood the parallel of the birth of USA and DBC... of course there were MANY different opinions (Royalists, farmers, etc., in 18th century in America, compared to today's oralists, ASLists, etc.) She was not being critical... just constructive.
BUT... can anyone see new parents learning about Deafhood right away? Deafhood is more for older deaf people, not babies nor new parents who are simply NOT ready unless they want to learn about deaf culture and advocacy for their deaf babies.
No one needs antidepressants. The way I see it, everyone is voicing his/her opinions. Of course... when one feels his/her feathers being ruffled, one becomes defensive.
Overalls, I think the majority of the commenters participated constructive dialogue... we expressed our concerns, etc.
As for me, I am sorry to say but I am comfortable with AGBell because it is a good source of wealth and I feel comfortable with DBC's appraoch to the babies, especially the part about cognitive development... AGBell because it is a good source for anyone who wants to know about mainstreaming deaf children in hearing world and I learned from AGBell... DBC does not have the info about mainstreaming (how to make it succeed, etc.) Every organization is different. Advocacy is different in every organization.
Cy, good job.
AND... my son's teacher of the deaf WAS one of the directors of AGBell's chapter in Indiana (Hear Indiana) and she used to teach at ISD and she knows sign language. Even Hear Indiana quickly offered the intepreter for my son who went to AGBell's sponsored camp last summer (my son declined the offer)... I even did NOT ask for the interpreter. And Hear Indiana again offered me the interpreter for this summer's camp (my son again declined the offer.. I did not even request for one.) AGBell is NOT against sign language as many people like to believe.
Hi there,
I would like to clarify that it was for chapter workshop for anyone who plan to set up chapters anywhere. The term of Deafhood was only mentioned for several minutes out of one and half hours workshop.
The leadership of DBC emphasized us all that we must focus on Bilingualism.
It was all about BILINGUALISM nothing more nothing less.
Some people, who criticized DBC, would support and defend DBC if they were at the convention.
Deafchip
I can answer that question. The Deafhood power point presentation was at the main convention center, open to public, splashed on a big screen for ALL to see. I gave you a link to the vlog and pointd to 2:52. You will see 'deafhood' movement's power point exposed at the expense of DBC and bilingualism. Should not have happened but it did because the head figure (leader) of DBC is also the same head figure (leader) for Deafhood movement. Ella. This individual hijacked DBC and rode on its wave to promote Deafhood movement because she makes a living as a Deafhood presenter. This person needs to go.
I'm calling for Ella's resignation. We all should demand the same. Deafhood movement needs to go with her departure because DBC is about something else. She has the morale responsibility to restore DBC back to us and allow us to promote bilingualism for deaf babies without being trampled by Deafhood issues and Ella's financial interest in Deafhood movement.
And CY, you are right. I am more interested in restoring DBC for what we all thought it was going to be. Certain leaders that currently hold DBC hostage has to go. If they don't, we will start a new movement / organization to preserve the original movment and to discredit DBC for what it has done. And it won't be difficult.
My hope is they (current DBC leaders) will have enough integrity and senses to restore DBC back to what they made us believe it was going to be. To think that John allowed these corrupted behavior to happen is mind boggling for me. He may have a good heart but does not have enough backbone to stand up to Deafhood leaders. John only understands intimidation tactics. It is because he is linear thinker. During my four months tenure with John always spoke in term of intimidations tactics. That is why many viewed him as the BULLY. It is probably the truth. The media also saw DBC as the bully and favored AG Bell's approach. I tried to help John see a better way to relay DBC's message to the public but he was still stuck in linear mode. For some reason he remained linear and only had his sights on AG Bell. After all it was his idea to "hate" AG Bell. DBC's quest to stand up to AG Bell belongs to him therefore the destructive result is his responsibity. Because of it, DBC's scars will remain for all to see as long as he is part of DBC.
Regardless, DBC should not be about John. It should not be about Ella. It should not be about Deafhood or what few celebrities they host. It should be about deaf children and everybody (human beings). It should not be used for personal gains or monetary gains. Integrity has to be restored before we're able to move forward.
From Anonymous2:
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Dr Hocokan said...
Take a peek at this slideshow;
http://www.xanga.com/Frank_Sandra/664464538/dbc-conference-slide-show.html
and go to 2:52 and you will see Deafhood in power point presentation. It had no business there.
----------------------
Can anyone transcribe the lists on a slide at 2:52? It is difficult to read the lists on the slide.
Yes. I have a hard copy of that power point presentation. DBC's State Chapter coordinator emailed them to me on the evening of Milwaukee conference and asked me for my input. I can email anybody a hard copy of the power point presentation. Contact me directly and I'll be more than happy to provide you with a hard copy.
Deafchip,
Okay, so Deafhood was part of the convention as a whole, and do you feel it was appropriate? How do you feel about it? What do you think about it?
Dr Hocokan,
Would you be able to download clips of the convention on your blog? I am no techno but I've seen some bloggers do that. Perhaps download it into a video maker and provide a link for viewing or something.
Karen,
Thanks. I wonder if the AGB chapter in Indiana is a more "gentle" version since ISD started the first BiBi movement and possibly AGB got involved in a way and perhaps both institutions learned it is more benefitical to work together than against each other? And perhaps because you are familiar with ASL already and have deaf in your family, AGB was wise to back off on their mission of oralism/auditory/AVT approach. I think had your family been new to deafness, their approach may have been different. And perhaps the AGB chapters vary place to place. AGB as a whole seems to be devoted to oralism and in that, that ASL weakens oral skills and/or acquisition. But if they want to work with people like you, they may know it may not fly with you. You are more educated in this area than most parents of newly deaf children. They may adopt a different approach to work with you and your son. They might have figured that because you come from generations of deaf family, your son would be a good model to demostrate that even AGB can serve kids like him. Possibly a clever strategy and movement on their part.
Nonetheless, if you are happy with their services, then stay with what you feel is best.
I took a brief break from hiatus to check on a few of latests on DeafRead. I read blogs and viewed vlogs with a heavy heart. The crab theory is still at work.
Only thing I want to say:
DBC folks, GREAT JOB! KEEP IT UP!
Hi Cy,
The convention was all about Bilingualism to promote parents of Deaf babies and children to use both of languages.
THe convention was NOT about Deafhood.
Deafhood and other subjects were briefly discussed at the DBC Chapter workshop for Deaf people who are interested in helping setting up chapters. I was there.
Hope this helps.
Deafchip
Deafchip,
Yes, you've said the convention was all about bilingulism - that was not what I was asking...I asked how YOU felt about Deadhood and other topics being part of the convention - are you ok with it or do you feel it should be only about bilingualism and that Deafood should be held elsewhere and at another time? The convention was about communicating with AGB parents about ASL. My point was whether it was a good idea to throw in Deafhood and other topics? I would not have any problem if they were held in private rooms away from the main part of the convention where DBC's platform would be open to public which should be only on bilingualism. I agree with you - DBC should be about bingualism, nothing more or less.
Hi Cy,
Your question about Deafhood and other subjects is very good.
I personally believe that the convention is only for bilingualism with some "brief and basic" resources and referrals.
If parents want to know more about Deafhood, let them have that.
If parents want to know more about AVT, let them have that,
If they want to know more about Deaf history, let them have that.
I believe every parent has a right to know any information that relates to their Deaf children.
For new parents, they need to focus on bilingualism and its resources first. They will learn many more later.
Hope this helps
Deafchip
Cy,
I had two blog postings about the question of EDHI bill introduced to the U.S. Senate for final votes anytime before this August 2008.
EDHI bill must be withdrawn and revised before it get passed as a law.
The EDHI bill in the U.S Senate is S 1712 (Re-Authorization of Hearing Detection and Intervention) sponsored by Senator Hillary Clinton as an amendment to the Early Newborns and Infants Health Screening.
Go for more info, check out the GovTrack.com for S 17172 or EHDI in full name. Please read the full text of legislation. You will be totally shocked how this bill is written that way.
No wonder the AGBell and other audiology industry heavily invested in this bill along with the CI manfacturers.
Robert L. Mason (RLM)
RLMDEAF blog
RLM,
How do a bill get off the floor? The usual contact-your-legislator route?
It'd be nice to post the bill in its entriety or summarize it in layman's terms?
Deafchip David
Can you tell us what they
were talking about Deafhood
at DBC in Milwaukee, please. Thank you.
Yes, I'd be more than glad to email anybody a copy of DBC's power point, which was sent to me on the evening of DBc conference in Milwaukee. The individual asked me to help even though I've resigned from DBC because we started working on it together and she felt we should finish it together. That is why I have a copy. Email me directly at drhocokan@gmail.com if you want a copy of the powerpoint. Deafhood is mentioned in it.
Additionally, during my four months tenure with DBC, I received hundreds of emails from Deafhood Foundation email address. That is because DBC uses Deafhood Foundation's program registered at seeworks. Deafhood Foundation controls (moderates) the account and brought the entire DBC affaird into seeworks. Ella is the moderator of deafhood's seeworks therefore she controls the entire DBC affairs single handily. All of the work that's been done is stored there and Ella has her fingers on top of everything. Ella is also the leader of Deafhood Foundation. See the connection yet? I do.
When I met with Ella for the first time via VP I told her about DBC's potentials for grant of license rights from my company's bottle water venture. I was thinking about granting the license rights to my company's bottle water ventures to help and raise funds for DBC's capital needs. As soon as I explained the potentials Ella's eye widened and then she told me about Deafhood. She told me that DBC was a small thing and the bigger picture was Deafhood. She then asked if it'd be possible for us to help Deafhood movement. Naturally I was being polite and told her that it was a possibility. But after that VP call I saw where her real motivation was. Deafhood weas her main interest and she was more than willing to cross the line and attract whatever support DBC was getting for her Deafhood Foundation, which she has financial interests in. Since I learned about her true agenda I observed how she engineered everything so that her Deafhood Foundation is able to ride on DBC's back and take advantage of free publicity for her movement at DBC's expense. She's done it in name of bilingualism and deaf children.
This much was confirmed in one meeting among core group. Mind you, I have a hard copy of that meeting and will make this information available to those who wish to see it. In that meeting Ella said she did not know what DBC's future was after Milwaukee because she did not have any plans. She was only interested in Milwaukee and then she wanted to move on and do something else. As a leader she did not have the commitment towards DBC. Her comments in that meeting fueled anger and outrage among other member. Little did this other member realize that Ella was never really that interested in DBC. She only saw DBC as the tool to promote Deafhood Foundation.
Again, if any of you wish to see hard evidences you may email me directly at drhocokan@gmail.com.
Dr Hocokan,
Deafhood bigger than DBC? I think not. DBC is bigger than Deafhood because there is so much at stake for our deaf children. Deadhood is simply a self-help tool for deaf adults. Deafhood is strictly a choice made by individual adult whether to buy into it while DBC reaches a larger public - hearing parents of deaf children - larger need for this organization. EBC's agenda is bilingualism and education while Deafhood is not about that.
If one wants to make a living on Deafhood movement, just write a book. I am not saying to plargize Paddy Ladd's book but to do a book on it - interview people about their experiences, collect some research data to validate Deafhood, etc. That better than piggybacking on another organization. This seems self serving and exploitative. But then we live in America - everything in name of profit...captialism...
Cy, I agree. Deafhood movement is minor in my view compared to what DBC COULD HAVE BEEN.
However Ella led John to see differently and made him believe that DBC needed the Deafhood Foundation to get to where it wanted to go. In reality, it is the opposite. Ella and her Deafhood Foundation needed the publicity and saw DBC as the mechanism for free publicity to take where she wanted to go. End result? It worked. Deaf people who went to Milwaukee felt good about DBC and Deafhood but the rest who didn't go are not as optimistic. Even worse, the media giants saw DBC under negative light. Worse even, connection with hearing parents were not made.
In short, Deafhood gained grounds and received free publicity just as Ella planned. Bilingualism got no where because it was robbed of the opportunity. AG Bell is evidently happy with the result because they won the publicity war with media giants. Hearing parents still do not understand why it is beneficial for deaf children to learn ASL and that it serves as the bridge to reading and writing English language.
You are right. DBC's current strategy is not working. We are not bashing DBC or its movement. We are upset with how Ella and Deafhood robbed us of the opportunity to demonstrate trye bilingual spirit, giving equal footings to both languages, ASL and English language with equal air time.
As DBC's strategist for the past four months I could not get them to change their strategy because Ella controlled DBC and the seeworks under Deafhood Foundation. She was determined to use Deafhood's strategy instead. That is probably why she engineered my departure. That is why David (R) celebrated when I resigned. John told everybody to not to communicate with me. My access to seeworks was cut off without notice in advance and without consensus approval from the core group. It was dictator at work. And yes I am fuming here because what happened was highly unethical.
Dr Hocokan
How do you propose to change the dynamics of the DBC hierarchy? Having grown up in deaf community, it is always hard to boot off key deaf leaders who gain respect and admiration from the community. Deaf at large do not see between the lines, have insider information, so they don't see the harm these said leaders inflict upon the organizations through self-serving actions.
I don't know these people - only by their reptuations, but as always in politics, there are always agendas and hidden motiviations. I am sure many of these leaders have sincere desire to lead DBC for its purpose of promoting bingualism, and I hope these leaders will do something to shake the hierarchy back in their proper places. My guess is John Egbert is only interested in seeing through with the convention and NAD...I am not sure if he has leadership background or political background.
Dr Hocokan
How do you propose to change the dynamics of the DBC hierarchy? Having grown up in deaf community, it is always hard to boot off key deaf leaders who gain respect and admiration from the community. Deaf at large do not see between the lines, have insider information, so they don't see the harm these said leaders inflict upon the organizations through self-serving actions.
I don't know these people - only by their reptuations, but as always in politics, there are always agendas and hidden motiviations. I am sure many of these leaders have sincere desire to lead DBC for its purpose of promoting bingualism, and I hope these leaders will do something to shake the hierarchy back in their proper places. My guess is John Egbert is only interested in seeing through with the convention and NAD...I am not sure if he has leadership background or political background.
I ran into another interesting VLOG / Blog at http://lenois.com/?p=117. It was rather interesting because first question generated wrong First Impression. Second and third and fourth question also generated wrong impressions. Nearly every questions demonstrated bashing efforts against AG Bell and oralism. See it for yourself. This video was taken and released by a private citizen. Not videotaped and released by DBC. I copied that tape in case they erase it later.
Many of the questions were tricky as if they thought it was AG Bell’s job to define things for us. Actually it is DBC’s job to define and present ASL / Bilingual facts. Barb finally asked the right question in the very end, proposing a summit between AG Bell, DBC and NAD. Just as soon as I thought they finally had some dignity David called AG Bell a Square Head. That’s right he signed it loud and clear on the video. Based on his degradatory comment at the end we can understand why AG Bell rejected an interview and will likely reject a summit.
Cy,
That is an important question.
How do I propose to change the dynamics of the DBC hierarchy?
Yes, having grown up in deaf community I too know that it is extremely difficult to change or replace key deaf leaders who gained respect and admiration from the community through the years.
I, for one have never been interested in booting anybody out of their league. I do not believe it is even necessary because it is all about education and traininig. If one is unable to learn and become educated then somebody else will take over. It is a natural process. I always feel bad or sorry for leaders that's been dislodged or displaced after so many years of service. They deserve honorable mentions.
I have always viewed John as a man with good heart but he is without backbone. He only understand intimidation factors. He's more of a soldier material than a leader. It does not make him lesser or greater than others. He is our equal but he is unique in his own right just as you are unique in your own right and I am unique in my own right. When we work together we be successful.
Having said this, I know for a fact that John is a good man with good heart but he is not somebody you want to be in charge of DBC or any type of advocacy group. He say things carelessly and it is his nature. It is not something we should exploit. However if he really believed that he is GOD in Deaf people's eye as many have made him to believe then it will probably get into his head and sink in and he'll eventually believe he is superior than us. That is where it becomes dangerous. What he has allowed to happen to me and other initial founding members of DBC is wrong. I know it is not his own doing but he, of all people should preserve integrity and stand up for us. BUt no.. he was more interested in Ella's magical power to attract deaf people towards the movement. Ella really has him under her spell.
You are right. If it was not for my involvement with DBC I would not know any better. I would not know the harm they were inflicting. I would not be talking about it today. I recognized the fact that not many deaf people had the privilege that I had so I don't blame them for thinking that I'm doing this out of crab theory.
The unfortunate thing is when I first joined DBC I assumed it was a legal entity, that of incorporated organization until I saw that meetings took place without notices and things were processing without due processes, without by-laws and recorded minutes.
I stopped them and asked for due process only to learn that they were not even a legal entity. They told me they were just a movement. Ella fought against the idea of starting an actual organization and wanted to stick with the movement. Initially I did not understand why but now I do.
She does not want the due process that is involved. She does not want to be bounded by recorded minutes and by-laws. She thrived under that environment because she is able to engineer DBC to work in her best interest. John also saw the same opportunity and told me his ultimate dream was to attract support from insurance companies who would stand to save millions of dollars in CI expenses and pay him to be their traveling spokeperson. He told me how much he loved to speak in front of large crowds. That was his motivation. Nothing wrong with that but let's do everything with a legal entity and follow due process.
This is DBC's underlying problem.... the lack for legal due process. At this point Ella and John are able to do whatever they pleases. Ella controls DBC at the disposal of Deafhood's Seework site. She is able to make modification and cut somebody off with a click of mouse as she did to me. This has to change. They need due process. They need an official entity, an incorporated organization with by-laws and recorded minutes to protect EVERYBODY.
It is not happening. They opted not to legalize their movement because they did not want to be held accountable for their actions. This is the first step DBC has to make to restore the movement.
DBC raised over $35,000 recently and spent most of it. Without a legal entity and by-laws they are not required to disclose where that money went. Who, if any, profited from the movement? We will never know. Is that why they didn't want legal entity in the first place? Is that why they didn't want to be held accountable?
These are valid questions to ask. I know because I've been part of corporation world since I was fourteen years old, binging my total experience to over 27 years. I preside over three different corporations today so I know how valuable the system is and why we have by-laws and recoded minutes. These things are there to protect us. The only time people don't want such protection is when they don't want to be held accountable for something.
Like you, I do not know these people. I only met them through the internet. Only people I had VP with was John and Ella. I only met knew Kristen once, the State Chapter Director who introduced me to DBC. Beside Kristen I have never met anybody in person.
Since I'm not deeply entrenched in deaf community I do not know their reputations either. It does not matter because I learned long time ago to look at people at face value, learning to trust everybody from the very beginning and entrust them to exercise integrity, giving them no reason to betray me. For that reason I do not worry about people's reputations. Naturally you get burned often but it does not leave me with any conscience if they choose to betray me. The conscience will be theirs to keep.
And yes, as in politics there are always agendas and hidden motiviations. It is to be expected coming from people who have financial interests. People who do not have any financial interests are oftentimes honest leaders who are out there to serve others, not themselves.
I am sure all of us have sincere desire to lead DBC and help it become successful moderator of bilingualism for deaf children. I don't doubt that for a second.
I, too hope that these leaders will take our message as a warning calls and shake off whatever they were doing and restore integrity and place it back in its rightful place. That is what I am aiming to do and we all should do the same. Demand integrity.
I do not know if either one has the leadership and political background. I will leave that for them to decide. I am more interested in restoring integrity so that we are able to advocate bilingualism for deaf children... the initial mission we all were led to believe.
I just viewed the interview with AG Bell President, Jay at http://deafanthology.blogspot.com/2008/07/da-vlog-interview-with-ag-bell.html and was surprised to see that most if not all Barb’s hot air (questions) never made it to the interview. Barb demonstrated so much hyper on the stage but in reality the interview was moderately managed. An interesting point to make. Jay with AG Bell said that DBC has never prepared a formal letter or seek formal meeting to introduce itself and seek dialogue with the organization. In short, DBC jumped the gun and prepared a costly rally ($35,000 or more) without allowing for due process first. All that expensive rally have in Milwaukee been done in vain. Deaf people who paid their expenses to attend did it in vain because DBC misled them. A simple formal letter of introduction to AG Bell would have led us to healthy dialogue with AG Bell and seek solutions. Now, how did it not happen and why?
Simple answers. Deafhood. Deafhood is more interested in making hearing people and AG Bell look bad in order to validate itself and to empower its movement. Second reason. Ella, John and their DBC Core Group only understand intimidation tactics because that is what Deafhood promotes. Evidently it backfired. This is an embarrassment.
One can't hold Ella alone to be accountable, David Eberwein as well.
Any DBC leaders who make direct financial profit from Deafhood need to resign.
-Ben
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