Michael Schwartz was a young drama teacher at the North Carolina School for the Deaf in the early months of 1977 when he discovered that the school was violating the United States Constitution by forcing all deaf students, regardless of religion, to attend a Christian church on school - state - property. The expulsion of eight children - seven who were Black - for a single infraction without due process infuriated Schwartz, and he reported the school’s misconduct to the North Carolina Civil Liberties Union. The NCCLU, a state chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union, threatened to sue the school and negotiated an agreement with the state government in Raleigh to cease the compulsory religious attendance and to implement due process for students accused of breaking the rules or the law. The NCCLU’s victory inspired Schwartz to become a lawyer, who now directs the Disability Rights Clinic at Syracuse University’s College of Law in Syracuse, New York.
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Translation/verbatim
Hello, my name is Michael Schwartz. I’m a law professor at Syracuse University, New York. I’ve been following the story of the North Carolina School for the Deaf (NCSD), where students have been protesting and were successful in forcing the current superintendent out and getting a new one in. It was a real brouhaha, and I watched from afar. I thought, “Wow, it’s history!” In 1977, 31 years ago, I was there as a teacher, temporarily, from January to May 1977, teaching drama. When I arrived, I noticed that every Sunday, they forced children, no matter what religion, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Baptist, various religions, to go to church - on state property! North Carolina School is under the state - I was puzzled. I wondered, “What about the constitutional separation of church and state? What’s up with that?” I decided to stay quiet because I was new and temporary, staying for only four, five months.
Time passed, and to my surprise, there was a bust. Kids were expelled! For marijuana! There was a party! What happened? Well, eight kids were expelled, seven were Black. That looked funny to me, I wondered about that. I decided to find out more. So I sat down with an administrator of the school - I won’t mention his name - and we chatted. He then told me the story of a party in the dorm. One kid reported to the school, and the kids at the party were caught. How the administration dealt with it - one by one, each student was brought in for questioning, surrounded by administrators - all white, all hearing, with minimal sign language if any - and they interrogated each student. They accused each child of smoking marijuana, and the child cowered in fear, denying the accusation. At that point, the administrators would pull out the bag of marijuana and show it to the student - “I’ve the proof right here!” The child felt trapped and would confess. So eight confessed and were expelled - seven were Black. That administrator [who told me the story] said to me - I’ll never forget his words - “Hard and fast punishment is the only way they’ll understand!”
I left this meeting and contacted the North Carolina Civil Liberties Union (NCCLU), part of the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU). I told them my story at NCSD, and they were thrilled. It was the first time they had gotten the inside scoop - for a long time they had been frustrated [because no one stepped forward], they had heard so much - NCCLU told me they would take over and look into it. I told them to please keep me out of it and went back to work.
Weeks passed, and all was quiet. Finally one month later, that administrator called a meeting of teachers and announced - he was in tears! - that he had to drop the church requirement [no more compulsory church attendance for the students] and those children who were expelled were being brought back. A new process - due process [of law] - would be set up where parents would get involved, and they must have an advocate involved, a social worker, whatever, all sitting around, discussing [the problem], not engaged in a forced gang-up on a child all alone - forcing a confession and expelling the child - no, no more.
I sat there and listened to the administrator, thrilled. He looked at me. I think he knew that it was me who reported the school [to the NCCLU]. Oh well…I got up, turned around, walked out quietly, got into my car, drove off, and screamed, “YES!” That experience is why I decided to become a lawyer. I saw the power of the law, how it helped these children. 31 years later…North Carolina again…the scene of upheaval - hopefully for the better!
Note from Tayler: AGBell’s recent incident, or fiasco, involving the Pepsi Superbowl commercial prompted Bernard Bragg to vlog, in retrospect, about his experience with AGBell trying to stop his “Experiment in TV” episode on NBC, saying “…history repeats itself”.
While at RIT, I worked closely with Michael Schwartz, brought on as an adviser of the organization of which I became President shortly after. More than an adviser, he was a role model for many.
As chance has it (again), Bragg and Schwartz are good friends. Schwartz also was prompted to recount his experience at NCSD by the recent happenings.
Great minds think alike!
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Posted on March 5th, 2008 by tayler
March 5th, 2008 9:51 am
My knees knelled, and arms were bowing before thee… I muttered, “I am not worthy…”
Tayler… two blockbuster video monologues (Bragg and Schwartz) in the row - recanting what happened at the past. That is the excellent example of collecting ‘oral history’ through vlogs!
Extremely beneficial! I am showing this with deaf and hard of hearing students in my school. Students needs to see a role model, for example, Michael Schwartz as Deaf Lawyer and Law Professor to tell a story what he did for the community.
Excellent way for students to emulate him.
“I am not worthy…” bowing before thee…
Amy Cohen Efron
March 5th, 2008 9:52 am
Is Michael Schwartz deaf?
March 5th, 2008 10:15 am
Hi Peachlady, Michael Schwartz is deaf. Bragg and he first met when Schwartz was a performer at National Theater of the Deaf (NTD). Also I saw a video clip in which he appeared in Bragg and Eugene Bergman’s play, “Tales From a Clubroom”.
March 5th, 2008 10:18 am
Amy, maybe some years from now you will recant incidents that are happening now (Greatest Irony?) for the purpose of oral history.
March 5th, 2008 10:31 am
Makes me wonder if there’s any thought on the part of Mr. Schwarz to lend some pro bono time/work to the current NCSD case?
March 5th, 2008 10:35 am
Thank you so much!!! This helps me feel more confident in our cause. Thank you thank you for starting something 31 years ago!!!! Now the children will have hope. I will email one student and ncad to watch this.
thank you thank you
March 5th, 2008 10:43 am
What a story! The name “Michael Schwartz” rings the bell. Was he a student at New York University where I attended as a graduate student from 1978 to 1980.
Can you run a clip of “Tales From a Clubroom” ?
Thank you for sharing Mr. Schwartz’s very historic story about NCSD.
March 5th, 2008 11:04 am
Whoa, Mr. Schwartz! Many thanks for sharing your ASL vlogcast about what happened at the NCSD in the 70s!
Yea, many school for the deaf trampled on deaf students’ constitutional rights which they were hundreds of miles away from their own parents.
I am really glad that you become a lawyer. What kind of law you specialize in? Disability law or what?
I was entirely responsible for de-religionize the WVSD in early 70s and forced the entire school to ask for deaf students’ parents for their permission and had them bused to churches of their own religious denomination than having students to attend the Sunday School services on the state government property, ex. school auditorium every Sunday mornings.
I have been an atheist pretty early at age of four. I was physically and verbally threatened by the WV School for the Deaf Elementary Department houseparents if I refuse to attend the Sunday School services.
I handed the form to my parents about attending the religious service an asked them not to sign at all. The Elementary School adminstration accused me of not handling the form to my parents. They knew nothing about my family’s liberal perspectives.
I was only the deaf elementary student to have the entire Elementary school buildings and dormitories all to myself for every Sunday until one deaf student finally joined me. I went to the Big-T restuarant every Sunday mornings or go somewhere on Sunday mornings while other students were bused to their churches.
Of course, many hearing Elementary teachers, houseparents and students looked at me in discord and digusts for not attending churches and asked me endless questions over and over why I do not believe in the existence of ############, etc. I enjoyed myself with all glees and smiles from not attending the religious service by mandatory requirement.
The WV School for the Deaf in Romney, WV had a long history of emphasization on the Christian teachings from what I researched on the entire history of WVSD.
I was totally shocked when I attended the first WVSD’s Sunday Services at the age of four. The regular teachers took the role as the ministers and showed the students the visual presentations of religious stuff with the state-owned school projectors and screen. I walked away, but teachers told students to put me back on chair and forced me to stay on.
I had my parents and several legal advocates which I was very forunate to know handful of lawyers in town of Romney which one of them rented the apartment premise to my deaf mother.
The legal battles came for years til 1974. The WVSD school finally succembed to the constitutional issues of the seperation of church and state which the school personnels could not engage in religious doctrinations.
(I wish that I could do the ASL video comments. I do not have any kind of video equipment for the possibiltiy of video response. I could not access to the KYDeafie video comment at all. I do not know why!)
Robert L. Mason (RLM)
RLMDEAF blog
March 5th, 2008 11:05 am
[riffly_video]43B35552EAD911DCAE8AD0A456B4F508[/riffly_video]
March 5th, 2008 11:20 am
I highly respect Michael Schwartz for his action way back in 1977. His story was so inspired and gave me goosebumps with tears. Wish there were 10 Michaels!
Kudos!
March 5th, 2008 11:23 am
Thank you very much for sharing this. We always prevail.
March 5th, 2008 11:46 am
Thank you, Michael, for sharing your inspiring story - those kids and adults affected by recent events at NCSD needed to see this and it was a perfect timing!
May you inspire more to become lawyers!
March 5th, 2008 12:26 pm
Hi,
I already email one student hope she will be able to spread the words out to her classmates and smile if they are allowed to watch this it would be great.
NCSD puts limit on everything now.
March 5th, 2008 12:51 pm
Many thanks for sharing your story, Michael Schwartz
I’ve come to a realization that how we can best help empower Deaf Community is to share with them our successful advocate efforts in the past and present. So they can take lessons from us.
March 5th, 2008 1:01 pm
I forgot to add this, Mr. Schwartz.
Thank you so much for calling in ACLU to stop the oppressive actions of NCSD on the rights of the students. Way to go!
March 5th, 2008 1:40 pm
Mr. Schwartz,
Thanks for sharing with us.
I also am impressed with how clearly you signed in your vlog. Clear and slowly…I should do the same for my vlogs.
March 5th, 2008 3:46 pm
tayler,
i second amy cohen efron’s first sentence and last sentence in her comment. can you be my master? i will be happy to paint your fence and wash you car to master my skill of great minds think alike! wait a minute, oops i talk to wrong person. i mean to bragg and schwartz. btw, kudos to your blog for bring great role models.
buzz
March 5th, 2008 4:25 pm
Actually, it is common among the deaf schools in the southeastern part of the United States (also known as The Bible Belt) — but why did they do that? The answer may lie with 2 things: poverty and distance. Between 1800s to early 1980s (WTF? Well, I was forced to go to the church of their choice at VSDB as well until 1984, I believe.) , many hearing parents practically dumped deaf children at deaf schools — and the mentality was to make them work together, live together — under one roof. Many deaf schools hired deaf teachers who are also ministers/preachers/pastors — many of them shamelessly proselytize during the classes, practices, sundays and all that.
The result is that many deaf kids converted to the religion that is not compatible with their hearing parents — thus their lives forever altered and separated.
It all boils to what? The ones that runs the deaf schools reeks of paternalism, that’s it;.
Cheers,
R-
March 5th, 2008 5:35 pm
looks like more information will be forthcoming soon
it might be possible for partents (and the students ) to sue the state of North Carolina
keep your fingers crossed !
March 5th, 2008 6:14 pm
Hi Michael,
Thank you for sharing that story so beautifully! This vlog can be a wonderful teaching tool and used in so many positive ways. I’m proud of you!
TMS
March 5th, 2008 7:47 pm
Thanks for sharing your story, Michael. History does have its place in defining one’s life purpose. Glad you’re here with us and to share your experiences. I’m sure it’ll be exciting since you’ve a penchant for drama….Jk! (just kidding!)
Keep vlogging on noteworthy notes! We’ll follow the trail you leave….
March 6th, 2008 6:25 am
Hi Michael,
Its indeed good to see you! Its been ages.
Thank you for making a difference and for sharing this amazing story with us. It is inspiring others to take necessary action in pursuit of justice whenever witnessing a wrongdoing.
Best.
Greg
March 6th, 2008 7:31 am
Michael,
Whenever you learned from the civil rights saga, it lively goes on and never stops.
Prejudicing could never pause the globally political, however, it will keep the laws that protects our rights.
March 7th, 2008 11:56 am
[...] Schwartz’s recent vlog aroused people’s curiosity about who he was. In addition to the vlog’s comments, I [...]
March 7th, 2008 1:41 pm
Way to go, Michael!
Many of you may not know that Michael’s determination and campaigning does not end at the shores of the United States. He has been giving great presentations based on his experiences as a Deaf lawyer and person in Northern Ireland where I hail from and he has impressed and inspired a great deal of people both Deaf and hearing. I remember sharing a platform with him at a high ranking conference a couple of years ago and even the President of the Irish Republic was blown away by Michael’s testimonial.
Michael is a real great guy - we wish he was a permanent UK/Irish resident so he could work with us on our battles here.
Best wishes
Jeff
March 7th, 2008 2:13 pm
Michael - its finally to meet you via vlosphere!! THANK YOU very much and I really hope your vlog will help other respected Deaf lawyers, teachers, administrators to COME OUT and vlog their experiences as well. The more they come out, the more empowered we will feel in getting justice for all Deaf children.
Upward we go!
March 7th, 2008 5:02 pm
Hi,
I remember when I went to a Lion’s Camp, I was surprised that we were forced to go to a church on Sunday during our camp week. I stayed at the camp for two weeks, one Sunday, we went to a Baptist church and then the next Sunday to a Catholic church. Of course I was very disappointed as I didn’t expect to go to a church while I was in a summer camp. I wonder if Lions Camp was wrong for doing this but then it was a private camp operated by Lions. I would be interested to know about this. Thanks for bringing it up! We need people like Mike to shake the system up once in a while.
March 7th, 2008 5:39 pm
Way to go, Joey!
I like your idea of seeing deaf lawyers, teachers, and administrators to v/blog in DeafRead. I, too, would like to see DPN’’s four leaders Gregory Hlibok, Brigetta Bourne-Firl, Jerry Covell, and Tim Rarus to present workshops about deaf empowerment as well as to how to best organise a protest IF NEED BE.
JB
March 8th, 2008 5:47 pm
Hello Michael
Thank you so much for sharing your story about NCSD. Yeah we must continue to make things right for Deaf students and have qualitifed staff. Wish you could come here and support us. We could use your lawyer s skills! smiles, Donna NCSD Cass of 1975
March 13th, 2008 4:14 am
Hello Michael
Hooray! We wanted to thank you for what you had done for NCSD and students 31 year ago but what happend to the former deaf staffs during 1970’s where was their support? Hey, former deaf staffs, you see what Michael did and we all must thank him for supporting deaf students at NCSD. We were surprised that they didnt take action like you did. what a shame!
Again, thank you, Michael for your support!
From a deaf couple, former NCSD students in 1970’s
March 14th, 2008 7:30 am
I find the story about the 1977 NCCLU action against NCSD informative. The story about the pot smokers is a sad one. I agree the Black students should have had their due process.
I’ll give my two cents for what its worth…
First, the phrase “separation of church and state” isn’t in the constitution. This was a phrase mentioned in a letter Thomas Jefferson wrote to Danbury Baptists in 1802. The Supreme Court, of course, has interpreted what “separation” means.
Many Deaf Schools, including our first Deaf School, were founded for religious reasons. Nothing is wrong with that. Thomas Hopkins Gallaudet was himself a minister. Many of the first superintendents of Deaf Schools were ministers. Some of our greatest Deaf leaders, some of whom we see in the 1913 films of speeches by Deaf men, invoke the name of God with reverence. Religion itself isn’t a bad thing. Religion provides morals, direction and discipline.
It should be clear that chapel services were reserved for weekends. Most Deaf Schools no longer keep their students on weekends.
Second, the idea of being “forced” is pushing the statement too far. Deaf Schools were “homes away from home” and they provided a semblance of what home was like. [The parents of many students actually attended church themselves. ] Home life for the students was attending class, performing responsibilities in the dorm and elsewhere, and participating in afternoon and evening activities.
Historically, chapel services were the only time during the week where the Deaf could express themselves in ASL (see Padden “Inside Deaf Culture”). The chapel services were the forerunners of other activities that happened after the students graduated. So, requiring chapel attendance - was it a bad thing? Students were “forced ” to study history, math, English, and learn a trade. Deaf students were required to listen to lectures from politicians, educators, historians, and a host of other specialities. Forced? Yes, but it doesn’t mean it was bad for them besides this doesn’t mean the Deaf student used (or applied) what they were “forced to listen to” after they graduated.
Chapel services provided a rich source of ASL storytelling. Older graduates of Alabama School for the Deaf fondly remember the Rev. Robert Fletcher (father of Academy Award winner Louise Fletcher) for his gift of captivating his audience with stories. Yes, they were required to attend, but was it a bad thing?
It might be a triumph for the ACLU to remove mandatory chapel attendance, but in doing so a rich source of Deaf Culture was taken away from the Deaf. Ironically, specific events are still compulsory at the Deaf Schools. Attending Black History events, Deaf Plays, Deaf Culture presentations are compulsory.I applaud the schools for providing such a learning environment inspite of the compulsory requirement. I have yet to meet a Deaf student who has been harmed by these presentations.
March 15th, 2008 10:10 am
Thank you for your words being spoken out in the behalf of deaf students at NCSD and also, for NCSD Alumni. I hope that the nightmares in their childhood as well as mine will be cleared up and for us, our lives will be forever moving on and show our support for our alma mater, NCSD.
Again, thank you, Michael.