6:21 long. Sorry!! Responsing to Aidan on my experiences and perspectives with deaf political leaders with strong deaf identities, their lack of outreaching various deaf people like me when I was growing up, "hearing loss" term, etc.
*Note: I just noticed after uploading the video, I used weak deaf sign. ARGH!!! Need to practice more on the deaf sign usage. Also...I noticed that I pointed deaf group "lower" than the hearing group...this was unintentional! *punches self in the face*
Friday, April 6, 2007
Response To Aidan On Political leaders, NAD, Hearing Loss, etc
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29 comments:
Thank you for your time sharing your view and background experiences. I hope you're feeling welcomed to the Deaf community. Since there are 85% deaf/hh children at the public/private schools, we, the D/deaf people need to be aware of our upcoming generations who are coming from mainstreaming environments - they all deserve to be welcomed to our Deaf community. NAD is in the position where they are embracing the upcoming generations with the d/hh young people. Thanks again!
Your vlog described my feelings. My upbringing is similiar to your upbringing, with an exception that I was a solitaire in the mainstream settings.
Yes, perhaps the prez of NAD used the word "hearing losses" to attract the "hidden" deaf people, to bring them out of "closet" into the deaf communities.
I remember when I went for an interview for a deaf sorority at NTID and I was so nervous that my signing was sloppy. When I noticed my signing was awful, I got more nervous, ha, and my signs got more awful. That was the first year when I learned sign language. I was surprised when I heard that I made it into the sorority as a pledge. But I did notice that the sisters avoided me until my signing improved. Hmmmm....
Just remembering... I did stare at the deaf people signing but never approached them, because I did not know sign language and I felt an outsider, when I was younger. Blame my parents? Hmmm... no. I remember my parents realized, a bit too late, that I could have benefitted from sign language and my father sat down with me and showed me the college catalogues from Gallaudet College (at that time it was college, not university) and NTID. I looked at them and flatly refused because I felt I would be rejected because I was oral and he said no, I'd learn sign langauge. Well, I went on my way, to a hearing college. Whatever.
I went throught same experience as you as mainstreamed product. However, the way you explained your view is outstanding. I could not have said it better. Many do not realize how much many of us want ot be part of the deaf community and have so much to offer. You are an emerging leader. I hope our paths cross someday in the near future.
Thank you!
Julie Rems-Smario
"the D/deaf people need to be aware of our upcoming generations who are coming from mainstreaming environments - they all deserve to be welcomed to our Deaf community"
Upcoming?? Upcoming?? First, I appreciate the sentiment that we need to be welcomed, but there is as much existing as upcoming mainstreamed!
You have five to six decades of mainstreaming already. The moment technologies and hearing aids and other stuff like that started coming out, the isolation of many, many, many deaf children began. (I think mainstreaming should be called isolating :-/ ) This isn't something new.
I was mainstreamed throughout the seventies and eighties as a solitaire as described in Alone in the Mainstream, whose own author was mainstreamed even earlier, in the fifties and sixties.
The thing that gets to me about us solitaires is how invisible we seem to be for the most part.
Anyway, this all sounds very familiar to me too -- outside looking in, toward both Deaf culture as well as the hearing world. :-P
This is kind of why I have little patience with exclusive attitudes. We all have something to offer, we're all part of the story.
Maybe I was educated orally, but the circumstances and history behind that happenstance for me is rooted in as much history (consequences directly from the Milan Conference) as all the multigenerational deaf signing family dynasties out there.
Anyway, when my own ASL improves, maybe I'll put out a vlog too. I'm sure this conversation will still be ongoing for years ;-)
You said it beautifully !! Bravo ! It is true that the strong Deaf culturally leaders tend drew Deafies from strong deaf background.. We need to stop with this kind of attitudes and welcome more diversity deafies from all different kind of backgrounds. It will make the NAD more stronger and more unity. I have made friends with many hard of hearing people who was never in Deaf World and I helped them feel more welcomed in our Deaf World and they inpired and improved with their ASL .
written by Cheree Mull
BEG... you can start your vlogging anytime now. As you might have already noticed, my ASL in the vlogs has a strong "oral" accent, but so far no one has criticized me. So, vlog away! :-)
That's wonderful for you to share your perspective from what you had been experience.. I hope that will be more helpful for the Deaf leaders will learn something how to pull and help them to feel more comefortable with indenty..
Great job with your video clip. I gotta go stop using this computer snd start cooking! Shawn
IAMMINE:
Yes! Yes! I am so glad and excited that you set up your own VLOG... HORRAY!!!
I will do the next Vlog relating what you just said in Vlog.
Forgive me, I am very exhausted from meeting with different people and everything this week. I am taking a break.
Again, I am so proud of you. I am so thrilled that you set up your own Vlog.
I will explain more details in Vlog. You raised many important situations.
Aidan
Hi there! Like Aiden, I am thrilled to see you have set up your own v/blog! We see your comments so often on many v/blog sites. It' always nice to see you in person. Your signs were clear and easy to follow. Your points were well made.
I've never asked you about how you chose your blogger name. IAMMINE. It looks like I Am Mine. Can you tell me about it? I'm sure you have a story to share....
~ LaRonda
www.earofmyheart.com
Hello everyone! :)
I knew you weren't finished, Aidan - and always looking forward to your vlogs! :D
Yes, Deaf Niches - many of us felt like outsiders!
It even got to the point where I actually enjoy being an outsider. But still want to be part of the deaf community and being involved in something! And I am. :)
Ah - the blog name? It's just temporary blog for now until I get a site set up in time.
I Am Mine is a favorite song of mine. My favorite line in that song:
"I know I was born and I know that I'll die...the-in between is mine. I am mine."
I'm debating whether to name my new domain site iammine or handsgiventofly. I guess I'll have to explain that later. :D
Thanks for the warm welcome - I have been sick, down with something and I really wanted to cough or blow my nose in this vlog so bad! :D
*groan in embarrassment*
My damned FeedDemon did not behave and send your vlog to me immediately! Apologies for late responding but what can I say except that all those comments above me said it all. I will with Aidan make a vlog myself adding your point by giving my short biography focusing on my experiences with deaf culture later on.
You are a marvelous person and smart one! Your comments make me really really think about the topic on hand. That is why I pick on you because you inspire me! Haha, how more weird can I be? :-)
Anyway, time for me head out now!
Bye.
Mel,
Here's my response. Basically it is about my initial experience meeting oral/heard-of-hearing people back in the late 1960's.
I have a question to ask you. You said that your school kept you and bounded others for a deaf school. How did the school decide that? Based on audiogram? How did parents feel when the school rejected their children for mainstream school? Did the parents sue the school for being lazy to give them speech and auditory training? Were parents deaf or hearing?
IamMine,I have a deaf brother and I am deaf too. We were too oppsite way because he went to mainstream and I went to deaf school all my life. I didnot blame on my parent sending him to mainstream and he have no idea about ASL and etc. so he went to deaf camping and learn ASL etc. later few year,he went to NTID.he was little frusation with his signing to deaf people. I told him that take a time to learn and pently of time.he has few deaf friends and enjoy socialing with deaf people. that is wonderful
Baloney. I think you and your peers do not care to "outreach themselves" back then. With new "hearing loss" rally call, will you become a member? Doubt it.
SM
Oscar – riiiight. ;) I'll look foward to your biography!
Carl – yeah, it always makes a difference when you meet a deaf person who shows you the bridge and opens your eyes! I remember my elementary best friend who came from generations of deaf families – I loved spending the nights over her house! Her house was full of deafies and always signing! I hated going home – it was depressing! She went to deaf institution and I lost my best friend. It was devastating for me because we’d mainstream together and I became alone for the remaining school years.
Anonymous at 10:07am – it wasn’t school itself that kept us bounded for a deaf school. I’m not really understanding your question so hopefully I’ll answer your question this way. My school at the time was primarily an oral program, but changed when my mother stepped in and fought for sign language. She succeeded in that; however, speech and auditory training was still heavily implemented in classroom and we had to use SimCom. Other students whose parents who wished that they don’t use sign at all continued their oral training.
I just wished we were having visitors from deaf organizations when we were growing up in our mainstream programs. I don’t know if they tried or not?
Today more deaf/hoh are mainstreamed and moving towards heavily oralism. I worry about those children. We need a way to outreach them without so much conflict – especially our personal beliefs.
Two years ago I was asked to be a judge for the first deaf/hoh youth events and this one included three schools, including the deaf institution. It was so wonderful! It was the first time I had heard of such event and I’m hoping they do more like that so they can have friends from deaf institution while mainstreaming.
Anyonymous at 4:21am – that happened to me when I entered NTID even though I used primarily SEE. It was pure hell at times, but I did make wonderful friends! :D
Anyonymous at 4:24am – I’m not sure what you mean? We did not care to outreach ourselves?? How could we if we were mainstreamed with no exposure to deaf culture and living with hearing families?
As for the label “hearing loss”, I wasn’t talking about myself – but different people who are “hidden” to the deaf community and they DO want to be part of them like I did. Some of them were raised and taught with different labels that they came to consider as “normal” that WE don’t. That’s all I’m saying. :D
Perhaps if NAD had sent out their representatives back then...it could have helped tremendously. Again, I’m not sure if they tried or not – it could be the schools themselves.
You think NAD reps are like angels that attend every little mainstream classes across the USA? Dream on. They do not have much money and manpower. Do not make excuses and take an incentive. Internet save your soul, God Bless for ASL bloggers and vloggers.
SM
SM - back then we didn't have internet. ;)
I don't think DeafRead is THAT popular for the hearing parents of deaf/hoh children - yet, anyway.
We could have used deaf role models back then to look up to, though. It most certainly would have done a lot of good to my self-esteem, I think.
As for NAD being “angels” - I don't know what's realistic or not (would be nice!), but I do know that we need to do something for those mainstreamed deaf/hoh children, though.
I would LOVE to try something - I've already talked to friends and right now I'm just scratching my head. :S
I have no experiences in taking charge of an event or organizing an event, anything like that. I don’t have the leadership skills at all.
Easier said than done, I suppose. Doesn’t mean it’s impossible.
IamMine, another great vlog! :) I think you have a very important message - that the deaf community is not as inclusive as it likes to think.
I know that it is true here in MI. I am fortunate that I sign ASL so fluently that people thought I went to a state school of the deaf. But those who went to MSD, knew I didn't go, ergo I was rejected by them.
It's silly. People like you and me have a lot to offer, but there are people out there who will not welcome that. But I am sure that as time goes by, that will change, because they will realize that they have to, or risk fading away into obscurity.
Good Vlog! :)
Hi there,
Yeah I can understand your experience as I grew up with oralists. We were always separated from deaf children who used sign language.
I was always told that I was hearing impaired at school but with my friends, we told each other that we were deaf. Then when I reached to my adulthood, I stopped using the word hearing impaired as I never liked that word.
I'm not sure if NAD will attract more people using the word hearing loss. But it is definitely better than using the word hearing impaired. I would pick hearing loss over hearing impaired.
Can Bobbie Beth Scoggins be asked that question, I don't think it is fair to be talking about her when she does not have the opportunity to share to us why she used this word.
I'd like to share something... there is a program in Rochester,NY, for mainstreamed deaf childre... BOCES which provides services. Also, it offers the social gatherings. A friend of mine whose daughter was mainstreamed last year let me know that there would be a bowling with pizza lunch and I was surprised because I never heard of it and I asked RSD about it and it said it had no idea also. Anyway, I showed up with my kids and we were NOT welcomed, all becasue my kids were NOT mainstreamed (that was last year.) So... I got a message, outright in my face, that my children would not be welcome unless they were mainstreamed. It was awkward.
Hey, SM:
Take a three year old deaf child born to 100% hearing family...put hearing aids on her...put her in speech therapy...now mainstream her so she's the ONLY deaf child in school, ever.
I was more than half way through college before I even understood "deaf culture" existed at all! So, how would I have possibly "reached out" before then?
At that point, when I tried taking an ASL class, the hostility of some deaf people I met drove me back out. Why not? I was reasonably comfortable and familiar with the hearing world, and still convinced I could make things work by *trying hard enough* (damn is that ever poisonous if you get that into your head...it's your fault...try harder...you're the one who missed things...work on it some more...and so on and on).
At this point, though I've finally got it thru my thick head what this is all about. And I'm older enough and mean enough :-) that I won't be driven away this time around. And I'm having such a blast with ASL...really wish I'd stuck it out earlier. Oh well.
Imagine if I'd managed to find friendly folks in college at least.
Anyway, I've learned to discount years of hearies pinning the problem on me. It's just as easy for me at this point to discount people like you who blame the "problem" of those "oral deaf" who "don't reach out" on those people themselves. If you think about it, there's no real difference between these two attitudes.
I think there's a large number of people in this community who honestly don't understand the extent and magnitude of the isolation some orally educated deaf children get. If they can function at all reasonably -- and given the variety in human nature, ability, temperament, etc, some of course will manage -- it's perfectly possible for them to think that most deaf people are like them, to never *meet* other deaf people, and to not actually understand the range of options or possibilities that there really are.
That's why I'm such a fan of outreach programs aimed at the hearing parents of deaf children, and other programs that promote socialization between deaf children even if they are isolated at school.
But I swear sometimes it seems we also need some means of educating deaf people what has been and continues to be done to orally educated deaf. It never ceases to amaze me that people will blame me, somehow, for all my shortcomings as an orally educated deafie. Right. Hold the three year old responsible for the decisions made for her.
Deaf Niches, I'm agog about the mainstreamed group rejecting you & your kids. Do you mean that the mainstreamed kids didn't sign and they didn't want your (signing-capable) kids there or what? WTF?
I am just so dumbfounded at how many ways we all reject each other. It's insane. We're a tiny group, easily out numbered by hearies, and yet we divide ourselves all up. The waste of all that is just infuriating...agh...
BEG, I don't know. Now my son is mainstreamed and is thriving. My daughter attends ISD. I did at one point ask the director of support services for hearing impaired of BOCES about it and she countered with telling me that RSD did not also involve BOCES in RSD's activities. I backed off after that, feeling awkward, since I realized I did not know the history between RSD and BOCES.
Influences? Hearing parents? Concern that deaf school students would be bad influence on the mainstreamed deaf/hh students? Etc.? I really have no idea.
HI HI HI! Please forgive me being so late with this! Several days taking my time off from deafread and I am already behind! How scary is that!
Let me tell you something about my background. Although I am from a deaf family, I grew up as a solitaire in the mainstream. I was withdrawn during the daylight but a social butterfly at nights since I was allowed to join Jr. Nad at PSD since the age 11. I got to attend two times a week at nights. PSD allowed me and my sister to join because Jr. NAD is not supposed to reject any mainstreamed students. This is something that NAD can work on to recruit more mainstreamed students to join Jr. NAD at a center or a school for the deaf.
Like you mentioned on my website, it is the system baby.
Whoa....like you, Barb - I just took a day off to be with my family with my COMPLETE attention!
No computer, no games for the kids, no school...
Whoa! I have some catching up to do, too! :)
Yup - it's the frigging system, Barb. Tch.
BEG - you have SO MUCH to say and I LOVE your writings!
Be bold and do the vlog! You'll help others who are scared to come out of the closet and their signing WILL improve with positive reinforcement from our loving DeafReaders! :D
You would also offer "history" with your signing by visual!
No one WILL pick on you, I promise!
If they do…I'll...erm....give up one of my Pearl Jam records! The rare ones. *gulps* ;)
I'm not a great signer, either...but the MESSAGE itself should get through! :D
yep, same here, catching up.
I grew up mostly in mainstreamed programs so I am pretty familiar with those feelings of not feeling like belonging in. I have heard similar feelings from others as well.
I remember once a older Deaf man yelled at me for not going to a deaf school. I was only about 11 or so at the time.
That may be a good issue for Jennifer Yost-Ortiz who focuses on Youth programs at NAD to look at. How to reach out more to that group of people.
I am hoping that someday the technology we have will help bridge that gap more and connect students from various programs across the nation.
Jessica: I wonder what that man thought he would accomplish by yelling at an 11 year old! I'll be very honest: if I were a hearing parent of a deaf child who got yelled at like that, it would only reinforce my belief that keeping my child away from such people would be in her best interest... honestly...
IAmMine...oh! agh...maybe, maybe...I'll work on something. Might take me a while to come up with something understandable :-O...Eek! But thank you for your kind words on my writings! I'm thinking and processing a lot right now...late bloomer that's me :-)
I've enjoyed watching your Vlog. And I understand, really do! I am HOH. My parents are deaf and use ASL and are involved in deaf community big time! My siblings are all HOH/Deaf as well. So we are deaf family and grew up in deaf culture. However, because My siblings and I are HOH to a different degree, we were mainstreamed!!! I continued to be mainstreamed until H.S. My siblings went to deaf school before I did. I'm very open to all kinds of people with varying hearing loss. I Understand and I do see some deaf people treating mainstream kids different. But, back then, some mainstream school in my area have JR NAD and deaf school kids have met mainstream kids at a retreat in our state, which fosters life long friendship even to this day. I also have my HOH mainstream friends over my place to experience what it is like to have a deaf family. Yes, all of them want to live with us. Most of my mainstream HOH friends now are totally involved in deaf community. Mainstream teachers are always angry at me and my siblings for signing. we were not allowed to sign, we were puzzled. so we sneaked and sign during recess etc. My parents are more interested in our education and were open to ideas and suggestions by the school district (this was during the early part of 60's). And even though they knew the school forbid us to sign, they also knew that no one would make us stop signing anyway. When my siblings had enough of mainstream, they went to deaf school but I remained hearing on forhead for a while. lol Until high school I decided to go deaf school because I got tired of hearing how much fun my siblings were having at deaf school. I've enjoyed the best of both worlds.
I also see that mainstreaming could be solitude experience for some, yet, it was not for me nor was it for my friends because I exposed them to the deaf world. what this means is we deaf have to welcome a variety of people with hearing loss into our community.
I also just thought of something that I mentioned at Aidan's blog.
I notice at YLC and NLLC, they have a lot of kids from residential school for the deaf. Here in Sioux Falls, they have the youth leadership camp for middle school kids (NLLC(sp?)) and they gave a performance once. My mother was in town that time so we both went. What I can remember most from their introductions were most of them were from Maryland School for the Deaf. My mother was so impressed with their poise and communication skills.
I do not see much of mainstreamed program kids being involved in programs like YLC or NLLC where they can get more guidance on connecting more with the Deaf community and learning more about themselves and what they can contribute.
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