If you are unable to understand your teacher’s sign language, you should consider going to the ADA coordinator and say that you have no access to education in the classroom because you are not able to understand the teacher. If a professor does not sign fluently, then you should ask for an interpreter, especially if he/she uses his voice while signing. With an interpreter, you will understand the lectures better and not have to put up with basic sign skills.
Has any student filed an ADA grievance that they are not getting access to the classroom? This would be tricky IF the teacher was deaf and does not use voice, but…suppose the teacher uses SEE, why can’t the student request an ASL interpreter or a CDI? I realize it will be difficult for an interpreter to watch signs all the time, then sign in ASL, since the interpreter is used to just hearing and processing the information in his/her head and keep signing.
If I had a professor who did not sign well, I would demand accomodation especially if I want to participate in the classroom. Would the professor be able to understand what I am signing? Why should Gallaudet be any different in terms of students asking for accomodation in the classroom. If the students prefer a qualified interpreter over the teacher’s anemic signing skills, then they should be allowed to do so. If a student wants CART instead of an interpreter, let them.
I’m writing about this because I’ve noticed many former students complaning about their teachers not signing well, so instead of complaining about their signing abilities, a request for interpreter should be made and hopefully this will put more “pressure” on all Gallaudet professors/instructors. NOT all college teachers can be called a professor, being a professor is a much higher honor than being called a Dr. There is a long process in college that a person has to go through in order to be called a professor, however tenure-track professors could potentially circumvent this ASL fluency requirement as it is practically impossible to fire tenure track professors, so I hear.
DO not call all college teachers “professor” and ask them first if they are one. Not ALL college teachers have a Ph.D so don’t automatically call them “Dr.” Anyways, has anyone had an experience with this before? I would most certainly ask for accomodation if someone’s signing skills was not up to par. Thoughts?
Gallaudet students, this is your chance to demand the best out of each of your classes, starting with access to the lecturer communication-wise.
I think it’s going to be a great idea to deal with the interpreters. Not many of them are proficient enough in the subject matter (Psychology, Chemistry, etc.) to do an outstanding job. These teachers who cannot use ASL have absolutely no business to deal with the Deaf world, period! Gallaudet University does have a very strange philosophy about Deaf people and their language and culture. Their obsession has been focusing on diverse modes of communication, keeping Deaf people DIVided and DIVerse so that an “inclusive” community can be speculated and addressed in the best possible language of hoax.
Comment by Carl Schroeder — February 19, 2007 @ 1:18 pm
Actually, this has been an issue at Gallaudet for years. Deaf students who do not know ASL may request an voice interpreter. Meanwhile, deaf students who use ASL but does not understand their professors/teachers may NOT request interpreters. We have to ask the teachers themselves to put into an interpreting request and if they refuse, then we are stuck. I don’t know how the system works exactly, but I do know this– many students have tried, and failed, to get an ASL interpreter in the classroom if the teacher doesn’t sign well. The only way to get an ASL interpreter in the classroom is if the teacher requests one (usually because they just got the job and have no signing skills anyway).
Comment by Tara Holcomb — February 19, 2007 @ 2:25 pm
The teachers are ultimately responsible for providing access to the classroom, but usually defer the arrangement to another department, such as the suport services/disability offices. The teachers are responsible for providing access so if a request for ASL interpreters is denied, then the student can file an ADA grievance. Perhaps, I should research this on the Gallaudet website and see if they have an ADA coordinator/compliance officer. I’ve had to file several ADA grievances because of the poor quality of interpreters, and again because I had no “voice” when provided CART services. How can I participate in the classroom, when the CART person is not trained to speak for me, because it is not a part of their job. I would hope students at Gallaudet press on with this issue and make sure their basic right is covered, which is to have access to education in the classroom. If the ADA grievance is denied, then a student can take outside action. Even if you had the best interpreter in the world, certificatio-wise, you can still request a different interpreter because you do not undersand the interpreter at all. Why is this any different with a teacher, but of course the teacher is not removed from the classroom, so the next option is a different signer.
Comment by deafphilosophy — February 19, 2007 @ 3:41 pm
im all for filing grievances…
what do you do when dept of justice tell you that there are already 20,000 (or more) on waiting list?
how long are you willing to wait for corrective action?
Comment by matt — February 19, 2007 @ 3:55 pm
Tara, the teacher doesn’t have the legal authority to refuse the students’ request for interpreters, I believe. If the teacher signs, but the students cannot understand due to the teacher’s poor competency in sign language, the deaf students’ rights to equal accessibility defined by ADA are being violated. You may want to seek legal counsel specializing in ADA to pursue this further with the university administrators if they refuse to make accessible communication available to the students. This will be prohibitively expensive to the university, however, but the university’s uppermost responsibility is to provide quality education to deaf students. There is no quality education if the students cannot understand the teacher.
Comment by Visitor — February 19, 2007 @ 5:52 pm
Gallaudet shall NOT have interpreter period. If you ask hearing college student if his/her college have interpreter in case if teacher doesnt have good English, they would laugh in your face and say “what a stupid question” I did asked few hearing this question, they gave me puzzle looking. Yeah i had to explain to them why etc they said “ohhh there was protest at Gally last fall” They finally understand and said ” Gally students MUST clean all mess at Gally. SEE ! If if we do survey at every university in the IVY League about this issue. they will laugh and say how in the world can you continue go to class where a professor could not ASL well.
Comment by Tom — February 19, 2007 @ 6:16 pm
Hearing teachers with poor english can be a problem, BUT the students (hearing students) are not defined as someone with disabilities. I am Deaf, so I am bunched with others with a disability, and according to the college, I am entitled to sign language interpreters. The law says I decide what counts as qualified services or not, so if i got the best SEE interpreter in the world, I can still say it is not qualified services for I still do not understand the interpreter, and the interpreter does not understand me, therefore cannot voice for me. All students are getting equal access to a poor english speaking teacher, even the deaf person with an interpreter. If one person at Gallaudet is HoH and attends class with everyone who is profoundly deaf and does not lipread, that HoH student will get more access to education with a poor signer who uses his/her voice and mouths everything verbatim. Why should the Deaf students have to suffer while the HoH students gets the most out of it?
It doesn’t matter if there are 20,000 cases pending in the DoJ, we cannot just give up because the courts are filled with cases. If anything, you will have wasted 4 years of what could be a good education because you sat back and accepted what was good enough, not what you are entitled to and that’s the best out of classroom access.
Do Gallaudet students ask their teachers permission to record the lecture? Many students are allowed to record the lectures with an audiotape or whatever it is called. I am actually recording my interpreters in class through a friend and his laptop. This was a little complicated, I had to ask the professor permission, then had to ask interpreters for permission. A student would only need to ask the professor to record audio, but as a student, I had to ask the interpreters too.
Comment by deafphilosophy — February 19, 2007 @ 6:50 pm
no, we should not give up
let us file away…
be assertive
stand for your rights
Comment by matt — February 19, 2007 @ 9:30 pm
That’ll be interesting- to see if Gallaudet has anything like that. I honestly don’t believe so because while I was working for SBG, I met several times with people from the Office of Students with Disabilities and they have a LONG list of grievances. It is already hard enough to find the appropriate “department” to pay for Deaf-Blind interpreters during events and/or activities on campus. Christine Roschaert, who held my position before me, also worked intensively during her term with SBG to improve conditions for students with disabilities. She didn’t have much luck but she did raise awareness about the interpreting issue. It isn’t very easy to get interpreters at Gallaudet. I definitely learned that the hard way during the protest, having to use mostly volunteer interpreters. There’s an idea to bring to Dr. Davila—ensure that there is a procedure in place where students can file complaints regarding access, especially language access. greatideas@gallaudet.edu – is that the correct e-mail address?
Comment by Tara Holcomb — February 19, 2007 @ 10:06 pm
The backlog of cases exists at Dept of Justice due to shortage of staff, not because the courts themselves are full. You can easily obtain the counsel of a civil right attorney, bypassing Dept of Justice. I would suggest the students discuss this with Davila and ADA complaince officer at Gallaudet first, then if this meeting isn’t productive, go ahead with an attorney. For this case, chances are excellent that one can find a lawyer willing to serve pro bono.
Comment by Mishka Zena — February 19, 2007 @ 10:32 pm
Students should meet with the office of students with disabilities first to try to resolve the situation, if that doesn’t work, then you can file an ADA grievance. There should be an ADA director who will review the case and make a decision. If that is not satisfactory, you can meet with the provost, if that doesn’t work, you could meet Dr Davila but you don’t have to, since your options are pretty much exhausted after the ADA decision comes down. You can file with equal opportunity (I forgot the acronym, EEOC?) or go ahead with a P&A firm. From there, you can go up to the DoJ. There are many steps along the way but hopefully no one has to go that far, meaning the situation was resolved. One problem is, your “case” is alive for as long as you are at the school. If you leave or graduate, you can find other people to “take over” the grievance to show that the problem you encountered affects other people too. There won’t be any monetary settlement, but a major change of policy that benefits all students current and future. This would impact RIT/NTID as well, if the instructors are not fluent enough in ASL or SEE..or whatever the student needs to gain access to the classroom. Hopefully, students will take action and kind of corner administrators into a more rigid ASL policy to avoid getting extra interpreters when classes designed to improve ASL fluency will suffice.
Comment by deafphilosophy — February 19, 2007 @ 11:01 pm
there could be monetary settlement if you argue that it is also a 504 violation??
any attorney could find that out for certain.
Comment by matt — February 20, 2007 @ 1:16 pm
Matt, yes, Section 504 permits monetary settlement.
Comment by mishkazena — February 21, 2007 @ 12:19 am
Interesting topic.
If it is indeed true that Gallaudent doesn’t really support ASL interpreters for classrooms, something is fishy there.
Supposedly Gallaudent has that such policy, we can assume it’s because they expect teachers to know ASL which is a good thing. That’s not the case here, some teachers actually don’t know ASL really well in a fashion to teach. Gallaudet does nothing about that.
That would be a wonderful opportunity for a group of students to get together and work on that. It may be very difficult to kick out all those teachers (some may be great teachers but just can’t sign for shit). What should be done is to send a letter directly to those teachers encouraging them to take ASL classes at Gallaudet (free, I assume) to show their respect for the language used at Gallaudet. For those who don’t cooperate, it can be brought up to the proper person (hopefully the ADA director if there is such a posistion). And of course the last resort would be to take outside action.
This alone will be some kind of good leadership experince for students that they could grow on… Remember, students can’t just sit back and let the administration run the university 100%. They need to monitor what all is going on campus and take immediate action on situations that are unacceptable just like any other student body government would do at any university.
Comment by Bucky the GREAT — February 21, 2007 @ 8:55 am