Well said! That’s exactly how I feel about my SEE interpreter. I politely educated her twice. She nodded and turned back. I reported it to her supervisor this morning. I said, “I want an interpreter who is fluent in ASL. ASL is my firt language. I will be able to pass the Veterinary program.” She said,” ok I will talk to her.”
The reason why each language has its own particular syntax structure is intonation, where part is being stressed to where it is less stressed. More stressed, usually where is the focus part of the sentence. The focus part helps listener to know what is the central topic being talked about in sentence structures. They also are the key to discourse structure by stressing more on new informaton to less stresing on old information parts.
One interesting thing I learned from watching children who happen to sign more English like, usually those who have more hearing. I noticed they use stress (by using raised eye brows, lifting chin) in different part of sentence structure than what is commonly used in ASL signing. I cannot help but say, wow, it is simply hard on brains when rules are not consistent among signers.
I spoke with several teachers of the Deaf in the public school setting and asked why they used Signing Essential English (SEE). They explained that SEE is easy for them to use and ASL is way too difficult to learn in a short time. I made a point that Deaf children are not learning because English is designed for speaking and not signing. The ASL syntax, semantics, morphology, and phonology rules are violated when using SEE. ASL uses Subject Verb Object (SVO) and Subject Object Verb (SOV) structure for visual communication purposes. The teachers were stunned and did not realize there is much more to ASL. In addition to the discussion, their receptive skills are below average and they should not be teaching the Deaf until they increased their expressive and receptive skills. Those two skills are lacked and leads to educational failure. I demonstrated by signing ASL and the Deaf children’s eyes lit up with strong attention span. After that demonstration I rested my case.
Low ASL input and resources for deaf educators, intepreters, and ASL 2nd language users are understandable but they cannot go on forever with semi-lingual, cognitively deprivation.
I overheard a researcher saying that deaf children are flexible that they will adapt somehow to variety of communication modes. Many are, and many are not for many reasons. I can take it but when it comes to training and communication - language use among signers, it is downright unfair, oppressive, and a probable violation of ADA law, to what MSA say, violence of communication to deaf students at Gally. No difference.
Soon deaf educators and graduates of deaf education and deaf field will have more access to ASL language through internet and I am confident 90% of them by now already took ASL classes so there are really no more excuses.
I see improvation nowadays in ASl 2nd language signers: use of sign choices, use of spatial-locative, incorporation of ASL colloquialism, awareness of Deaf culture, and reduced use of unnecessary English morphemes like past tense, suffixes etc. If they are this point, I recommend them to start watching fluent signers’ use of facial expressions and head movements for sentence types, from declarative, complex, to question sentence types. They make it easy on brain. I sometime can look away from a fluent signer for few second and still know what s/he is saying from corner of my eye. That is how some students are adept at not paying attention in class when they do not need to and know when the teacher is starting a new topic. Not nice but do believe me.
First of all, I hope that your blog will be voted as the DeafRead’s “New Best Deaf Vlog” which you incorporate many thought-provoking issues along with real delight to watch every time. Your vlogs surely have a humorous side to all thought-provoking issues facing all of us. You just being yourself on the vlog along with DMZZ.
Carl Schroeder and Joey Baer’s vlogs are worthy deaf vlogs, too.
I did not participate in the DeafRead blog voting at all which I could not find the one site to vote on various deaf blogs. Darn!
Anne Marie and Deaf Linux, I always enjoy reading your blog postings when come to the ASL issue.
Deaf Linux, you were a real savior of the deaf youngsters back to the moment when you nicely confronted the educator of the deaf about the use of ASL in deaf classrooms!
Anne Marie, I would love to see more of your blog postings on the linguistic viewpoint of ASL. Congrats on your new baby!
People in general, really need to understand that the usage of English writing is for writing and reading among the deaf people.
ASL is a cinematic language! Worthy films have their own rules for successfully transporting the visual concept on the silver screen as compared to the jumbo mumbo film maunverings. The film audience would not enjoy the film if it is poorly used with the montage view or “scattered” view.
Same thing with the ASL there up in the air (visual spatial compostion). Easy on eyes and congentive process, too.
Every of us surely know that the English language is heavily audial language. It is ever an illogical language in many ways. Other languages really make linguistic structure, not the English.
We happen to live in the world which the English language is a dominant language. We have to embrace the use of English language for writing and reading in our daily life *sigh*
WHEN will the people of the society at large finally treat our beloved language, ASL to the respectable level??
To be honest with you, ASL is more superior to the written and spoken English as a language. We could complete our conversation or saying in very and very and very short way than the use of Signed English.
Yeah! I am totally agreed with your comment about signed english. The policy needs to be changed. I could say that you are speaking for everyone (ASL users).
More deaf people will use English through auditory means and will use spoken English, like my hard of hearing son (now 7 yr old). I wish I have statistics with me, I don’t. I know for sure, statistics do show a huge number of hoh people than ones with profound hearing loss like me and maybe you. Despite many hoh people’s ability to hear and speak well, they still need ASL for a full rich language that many of them will not be able to have the same experience with English.
My son said he cannot imagine not knowing ASL. He said it many times and said he feels sorry for some deaf-hoh kids at his mainstreamed school program. He has 60 db in both ears and with digital, it is around 30 db.
I do see a greater possiblity for more standard sign language use with more research information, better training for ASL teachers, curcirrulum, plenty of vlogs in the coming future.
Ron, and also others, we need to continue this dialogue. We have to keep on repeating like Chinese water. We are not rejecting nor pressuring anyone, we as humans simply have the right for full cognitive communication through standard use of language. Those who disagree are not necessarily biased, they simply do not have the experience to know the huge difference.
I agreement with that kind of sign languages in English and ASL. Foremore in different countries sign languages plus in sentences. We all are not skill on that but we are still learning in our daily living. I also learned in Spainsh languages in high school. We all still learning no matter what,when and where we all are at. That is hugh difference to me as in body languages too.
Very True! I have majored in Linguistics with UCLA University of California at Los Angles … ASL is like “foreign” languages because of its sentence structures. English structure is (SVO) Subject, verb, Object while ASL is (OVS or VS or even OS) like other foreign structures. Keep up with our beautiful ASL structures!!!!
Ron,
I agreed with you that ASL should recieve the equal status as other languages do.
The problem in our society is that many of our signs are arbituary due to the fact that hearie teachers made up signs for small deafies and cause permanent “damage”.
Another problem is that interpreters have hard time translating to ASL and in their tired moments, they revert to their home language (not necessarily good english either).
Lastly the REAL problem is that we dont have written ASL except for graphics or video. I study Greek and found it to be exactly ASL in grammar and structure.
I just hope some pioneer would come up with signed and written language in one package. then bring it up to the level of intellectuals.
Hello. I just wanted to say that I think SEE is more for those who speak English fluently and SEE uses more of the English structure while the ASL doesn’t. Those who use SEE are better off because it may be easier due to signing each word of the sentence they are saying, while ASL could completely take shortcuts and may confuse the ones who are learning sign language. So, I’d say learn SEE first for the basics, then you could take some ASL once you become somewhat fluent in SEE because its easier that way. From an educational viewpoint, those who use SEE is usually far more successful in the future because they are able to speak the English language correctly and have successful lives. Those who use ASL may often encounter obstacles when it comes to understanding the English language and they require certian requirements to completely understand overall, so therefore they may be less successful than those who use SEE due to the lack of English language and its grammar. They may not be able to write well because the ASL sentence structure is completely different.
Believe me, SEE may be easier and better for a person who lives in a mostly hearing environment because most of the deaf people live in completely hearing environments. ASL is more suitable for a more “deaf” culture because ASL is faster than SEE.
Personally, I know several people who used ASL all of their lives and they still cannot write the correct way to write English grammar because of the rules of ASL for whatever they are.
Luckily, I am able to speak ASL completely when I’m around ASL people, but I mostly use and try to teach SEE with hearing people because it is easier for them to learn.
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Very true! I did try that in Spanish once, and fortunately I had Donalda Ammons at Gally for a REAL Spanish experience.
Ron,
You clearly struck the nail on the head. Awesome,.. btw,.. my sign “hearing” I learned from a friend in Ecuador.
Jeff
I agreed! What’s difference between poor ASL and bad ASL?
Well said! That’s exactly how I feel about my SEE interpreter. I politely educated her twice. She nodded and turned back. I reported it to her supervisor this morning. I said, “I want an interpreter who is fluent in ASL. ASL is my firt language. I will be able to pass the Veterinary program.” She said,” ok I will talk to her.”
The reason why each language has its own particular syntax structure is intonation, where part is being stressed to where it is less stressed. More stressed, usually where is the focus part of the sentence. The focus part helps listener to know what is the central topic being talked about in sentence structures. They also are the key to discourse structure by stressing more on new informaton to less stresing on old information parts.
One interesting thing I learned from watching children who happen to sign more English like, usually those who have more hearing. I noticed they use stress (by using raised eye brows, lifting chin) in different part of sentence structure than what is commonly used in ASL signing. I cannot help but say, wow, it is simply hard on brains when rules are not consistent among signers.
Anne Marie
I spoke with several teachers of the Deaf in the public school setting and asked why they used Signing Essential English (SEE). They explained that SEE is easy for them to use and ASL is way too difficult to learn in a short time. I made a point that Deaf children are not learning because English is designed for speaking and not signing. The ASL syntax, semantics, morphology, and phonology rules are violated when using SEE. ASL uses Subject Verb Object (SVO) and Subject Object Verb (SOV) structure for visual communication purposes. The teachers were stunned and did not realize there is much more to ASL. In addition to the discussion, their receptive skills are below average and they should not be teaching the Deaf until they increased their expressive and receptive skills. Those two skills are lacked and leads to educational failure. I demonstrated by signing ASL and the Deaf children’s eyes lit up with strong attention span. After that demonstration I rested my case.
Low ASL input and resources for deaf educators, intepreters, and ASL 2nd language users are understandable but they cannot go on forever with semi-lingual, cognitively deprivation.
I overheard a researcher saying that deaf children are flexible that they will adapt somehow to variety of communication modes. Many are, and many are not for many reasons. I can take it but when it comes to training and communication - language use among signers, it is downright unfair, oppressive, and a probable violation of ADA law, to what MSA say, violence of communication to deaf students at Gally. No difference.
Soon deaf educators and graduates of deaf education and deaf field will have more access to ASL language through internet and I am confident 90% of them by now already took ASL classes so there are really no more excuses.
I see improvation nowadays in ASl 2nd language signers: use of sign choices, use of spatial-locative, incorporation of ASL colloquialism, awareness of Deaf culture, and reduced use of unnecessary English morphemes like past tense, suffixes etc. If they are this point, I recommend them to start watching fluent signers’ use of facial expressions and head movements for sentence types, from declarative, complex, to question sentence types. They make it easy on brain. I sometime can look away from a fluent signer for few second and still know what s/he is saying from corner of my eye. That is how some students are adept at not paying attention in class when they do not need to and know when the teacher is starting a new topic. Not nice but do believe me.
Anne Marie
First of all, I hope that your blog will be voted as the DeafRead’s “New Best Deaf Vlog” which you incorporate many thought-provoking issues along with real delight to watch every time. Your vlogs surely have a humorous side to all thought-provoking issues facing all of us. You just being yourself on the vlog along with DMZZ.
Carl Schroeder and Joey Baer’s vlogs are worthy deaf vlogs, too.
I did not participate in the DeafRead blog voting at all which I could not find the one site to vote on various deaf blogs. Darn!
Robert L. Mason (RLM)
Anne Marie and Deaf Linux, I always enjoy reading your blog postings when come to the ASL issue.
Deaf Linux, you were a real savior of the deaf youngsters back to the moment when you nicely confronted the educator of the deaf about the use of ASL in deaf classrooms!
Anne Marie, I would love to see more of your blog postings on the linguistic viewpoint of ASL. Congrats on your new baby!
Hand Wave,
Robert L. Mason (RLM)
Ron,
People in general, really need to understand that the usage of English writing is for writing and reading among the deaf people.
ASL is a cinematic language! Worthy films have their own rules for successfully transporting the visual concept on the silver screen as compared to the jumbo mumbo film maunverings. The film audience would not enjoy the film if it is poorly used with the montage view or “scattered” view.
Same thing with the ASL there up in the air (visual spatial compostion). Easy on eyes and congentive process, too.
Every of us surely know that the English language is heavily audial language. It is ever an illogical language in many ways. Other languages really make linguistic structure, not the English.
We happen to live in the world which the English language is a dominant language. We have to embrace the use of English language for writing and reading in our daily life *sigh*
WHEN will the people of the society at large finally treat our beloved language, ASL to the respectable level??
To be honest with you, ASL is more superior to the written and spoken English as a language. We could complete our conversation or saying in very and very and very short way than the use of Signed English.
ASL First!,
Robert L. Mason (RLM)
Hi Ron,
Yeah! I am totally agreed with your comment about signed english. The policy needs to be changed. I could say that you are speaking for everyone (ASL users).
Keep up your good work!
Art
RLM, just a correction..
More deaf people will use English through auditory means and will use spoken English, like my hard of hearing son (now 7 yr old). I wish I have statistics with me, I don’t. I know for sure, statistics do show a huge number of hoh people than ones with profound hearing loss like me and maybe you. Despite many hoh people’s ability to hear and speak well, they still need ASL for a full rich language that many of them will not be able to have the same experience with English.
My son said he cannot imagine not knowing ASL. He said it many times and said he feels sorry for some deaf-hoh kids at his mainstreamed school program. He has 60 db in both ears and with digital, it is around 30 db.
I do see a greater possiblity for more standard sign language use with more research information, better training for ASL teachers, curcirrulum, plenty of vlogs in the coming future.
Ron, and also others, we need to continue this dialogue. We have to keep on repeating like Chinese water. We are not rejecting nor pressuring anyone, we as humans simply have the right for full cognitive communication through standard use of language. Those who disagree are not necessarily biased, they simply do not have the experience to know the huge difference.
Anne Marie
I agreement with that kind of sign languages in English and ASL. Foremore in different countries sign languages plus in sentences. We all are not skill on that but we are still learning in our daily living. I also learned in Spainsh languages in high school. We all still learning no matter what,when and where we all are at. That is hugh difference to me as in body languages too.
Very True! I have majored in Linguistics with UCLA University of California at Los Angles … ASL is like “foreign” languages because of its sentence structures. English structure is (SVO) Subject, verb, Object while ASL is (OVS or VS or even OS) like other foreign structures. Keep up with our beautiful ASL structures!!!!
Ron,
I agreed with you that ASL should recieve the equal status as other languages do.
The problem in our society is that many of our signs are arbituary due to the fact that hearie teachers made up signs for small deafies and cause permanent “damage”.
Another problem is that interpreters have hard time translating to ASL and in their tired moments, they revert to their home language (not necessarily good english either).
Lastly the REAL problem is that we dont have written ASL except for graphics or video. I study Greek and found it to be exactly ASL in grammar and structure.
I just hope some pioneer would come up with signed and written language in one package. then bring it up to the level of intellectuals.
Hello. I just wanted to say that I think SEE is more for those who speak English fluently and SEE uses more of the English structure while the ASL doesn’t. Those who use SEE are better off because it may be easier due to signing each word of the sentence they are saying, while ASL could completely take shortcuts and may confuse the ones who are learning sign language. So, I’d say learn SEE first for the basics, then you could take some ASL once you become somewhat fluent in SEE because its easier that way. From an educational viewpoint, those who use SEE is usually far more successful in the future because they are able to speak the English language correctly and have successful lives. Those who use ASL may often encounter obstacles when it comes to understanding the English language and they require certian requirements to completely understand overall, so therefore they may be less successful than those who use SEE due to the lack of English language and its grammar. They may not be able to write well because the ASL sentence structure is completely different.
Believe me, SEE may be easier and better for a person who lives in a mostly hearing environment because most of the deaf people live in completely hearing environments. ASL is more suitable for a more “deaf” culture because ASL is faster than SEE.
Personally, I know several people who used ASL all of their lives and they still cannot write the correct way to write English grammar because of the rules of ASL for whatever they are.
Luckily, I am able to speak ASL completely when I’m around ASL people, but I mostly use and try to teach SEE with hearing people because it is easier for them to learn.
Hope this kind of helps.
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